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How will the miracle happen today?

kk.org

221–230 of 285 posts

Re: How will the miracle happen today?

#221

I couldn't help but focus on the vicarious adventure aspect Kelly mentions which was the "payment" he offered drivers in exchange for the ride. This is a mechanism that has largely been deprecated by the modern attention economy. In the era of hitchhiking, the bandwidth for novelty was low. A driver on a long commute had no podcasts, no Spotify or audiobooks. A stranger with a story was high value. The transaction wa…

don't have time for any of that, must worry all the time how to survive in this super inflated economy.. 20 years ago one still made a wage and living..

Re: How will the miracle happen today?

#222

What's interesting about this post is that it would be completely unsurprising to most people in most parts of the world, as well as most people here 100 years ago. The discomfort so many people in this thread feel with receiving kindness and the devaluing of the gift of companionship, gratitude, and a good story is a testament to how far off human norms our society is these days. I struggle with this a lot myself -…

Is that really true? Would a black man be able to receive this type of kindness 100 years ago?

Outside of America, sure.

Re: How will the miracle happen today?

#223

I couldn't help but focus on the vicarious adventure aspect Kelly mentions which was the "payment" he offered drivers in exchange for the ride. This is a mechanism that has largely been deprecated by the modern attention economy. In the era of hitchhiking, the bandwidth for novelty was low. A driver on a long commute had no podcasts, no Spotify or audiobooks. A stranger with a story was high value. The transaction wa…

Human contact is more scarce than ever, it's not fungible with podcasts or audiobooks, and most people are starving.

I've backpacked/hitchiked through Ireland few years back. It was easy to catch a ride, even easier to find somebody to let me pitch a tent on their land. People were open and kind and wanted to hear and share stories.

Re: How will the miracle happen today?

#224
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people getting increasingly hung up on enforcing reciprocity is just as likely a culprit

I wasn't trying to enforce reciprocity. I'm just saying that if you don't need help you shouldn't be asking for it from strangers. If you have a job and income you can afford transportation. Behaving like a broke person when you are not is taking advantage of other people, and taking limited kindness resources away from people who actually need help.

If you are morally obligated to use your own resources if you have them, then you're stratifying society. The financially comfortable can never ride a bus. The rich cannot drive themselves. Nobody can ever learn what those less fortunate are like, and must necessarily look down upon them and use their imagination to figure out what "those people" care about and need.

So that's not a great outcome either.

(I don't exactly disagree with you either. Accepting a scarce resource from someone when you possess significantly more? That rubs me the wrong way too. Get their mailing address and pay it back later, in spades, if it deprived them of something!)

Re: How will the miracle happen today?

#225

I see others expressing this point, but I'll add my two cents: this essay really bothered me. 1. The writer describes hitchhiking to work every day, presumably for months or years. He doesn't describe in any way how he paid back that kindness, either to the people he rode with directly, or just by paying it forward. 2. The writer describes traveling in Asia for 8 years, and many of the instances of kindness he descri…

There's always a fine line between being a wandering spirit and a mooch. I used to hang out with the rainbow gathering crowd, and this reminds me of the time my friend, who on coming down from his acid trip, declared that he was going to give all of his possessions away and wander the earth. When I suggested that might not be a good idea, his reply was something like "no, you don't understand, the universe will give me everything I need". I understood why a lot of old hippies end up as forest hermits or sticking to a small group: the burn-outs, mooches, and grifters wear out their welcome very quickly.

That said, I think there's something about going out into a world on a wandering 'quest' that appeals to human nature on a deep level. I'd hesitate to call the author a con man, since you wouldn't call a mendicant or pilgrim a con man. If his motivation was just to squat in people's backyards and mooch free meals until he gets kicked out and then wander around until he finds a new host, I'd agree. But if people want to help him on his personal project of experiencing the kindness of he world, I wouldn't call that taking advantage of people who offer their help freely.

The difference between a spiritual pilgrim and a vagabond freeloader depends on how much of a romantic one is, and if you admire Don Quixote or not.

Re: How will the miracle happen today?

#226
There was a post recently on a social network complaining how so many people have a side hustle, typically social media. Basically I think the Uberization of passions, or even just interests, with platforms like Ubers but also Etsy and finally TikTok (because even an act itself, without even a product or service at the end) allowing the monetization of anything is what killed the expectation of genuinely free act of kindness.

Capitalism destroy social links by turning everything, literally everything, from externalities to sources of capital. We are becoming sociopath by embracing such a system. The few at the top clearly demonstrate that.

Re: How will the miracle happen today?

#227

I see others expressing this point, but I'll add my two cents: this essay really bothered me. 1. The writer describes hitchhiking to work every day, presumably for months or years. He doesn't describe in any way how he paid back that kindness, either to the people he rode with directly, or just by paying it forward. 2. The writer describes traveling in Asia for 8 years, and many of the instances of kindness he descri…

The writer is Kevin Kelly, who is like the overlap between the hippie SF days and 90s techno-utopianism that has led to where we are today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Kelly_(editor)

Re: How will the miracle happen today?

#228

I couldn't help but focus on the vicarious adventure aspect Kelly mentions which was the "payment" he offered drivers in exchange for the ride. This is a mechanism that has largely been deprecated by the modern attention economy. In the era of hitchhiking, the bandwidth for novelty was low. A driver on a long commute had no podcasts, no Spotify or audiobooks. A stranger with a story was high value. The transaction wa…

Human contact is more scarce than ever, it's not fungible with podcasts or audiobooks, and most people are starving. I've backpacked/hitchiked through Ireland few years back. It was easy to catch a ride, even easier to find somebody to let me pitch a tent on their land. People were open and kind and wanted to hear and share stories.

Yes but the large language STEM salad of "marginal utility of a stranger's story" and the "P2P protocol of kindness" is surely more authoritative than your real world experience.

Re: How will the miracle happen today?

#229

I see others expressing this point, but I'll add my two cents: this essay really bothered me. 1. The writer describes hitchhiking to work every day, presumably for months or years. He doesn't describe in any way how he paid back that kindness, either to the people he rode with directly, or just by paying it forward. 2. The writer describes traveling in Asia for 8 years, and many of the instances of kindness he descri…

The author's philosophy is that, what the people doing him kindness got in return was that they got to do something kind for someone. To be honest, I think there's something to that. It could certainly be taken too far, but your assumption that it has been taken too far in this case is mostly based on an uncharitable reading of the text, in which the author was "pushing himself on people" and they were secretly resen…

This is also how I read it.

Also many of these acts of kindness happened in places where people culturally pay it forward for each other, regardless of wealth.

Re: How will the miracle happen today?

#230

I see others expressing this point, but I'll add my two cents: this essay really bothered me. 1. The writer describes hitchhiking to work every day, presumably for months or years. He doesn't describe in any way how he paid back that kindness, either to the people he rode with directly, or just by paying it forward. 2. The writer describes traveling in Asia for 8 years, and many of the instances of kindness he descri…

The author's philosophy is that, what the people doing him kindness got in return was that they got to do something kind for someone. To be honest, I think there's something to that. It could certainly be taken too far, but your assumption that it has been taken too far in this case is mostly based on an uncharitable reading of the text, in which the author was "pushing himself on people" and they were secretly resen…

> what the people doing him kindness got in return was that they got to do something kind for someone

Yes, there is something to that but he gives too much credit[1] to his own "willingness to be open".

I don't know if KK has taken it too far or not, but the way he expresses it all is not inspiring. It carries an air of pretentious wisdom.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46561144

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