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Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

monogame.net

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Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#221

Post by bigstrat2003 »

mips_avatar wrote: post #131
gmueckl wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad truth js that for every solo devs that becomes successful, there are an untold number of solo devs that don't find an audience and fail. The reality is pretty brutal in games.

Yeah but how often do you finish a AAA game and want to cry at how beautiful it is. You get that feeling pretty often with an indie game. Like something really important is being done by indie devs.

> You get that feeling pretty often with an indie game.

I've never had that feeling about any game. Indie games tend to be higher quality (because they are made by people who prioritize the game above business), but I think you're strongly overstating how good they are.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#222

Post by bspammer »

tredre3 wrote: post #188
unpopularopp wrote: post #89

I'm sorry but why C#? Isn't the big tech (Microsoft) in this case is a very big downside? Why not LÖVE (Lua) for example? https://love2d.org/ There is also libGDX (Java) but not sure Oracle is any better than Microsoft. https://libgdx.com/

> I'm sorry but why C#? Because Stardew Valley is written in it. Probably half of modern games are written in C#, too (Unity). It's not exactly an odd choice. > Isn't the big tech (Microsoft) in this case is a very big downside? No, a language being backed by big tech is a plus as long as the stack is fully open-source (which .net now is). > Why not LÖVE (Lua) for example? Because Stardew Valley uses MonoGame, not LO…

> Other than Minecraft, can you name one successful game written in Java?

The other major one would be RuneScape.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#223

Post by slumberlust »

squigz wrote: post #126
mjg2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think ConcernedApe is actually genuine with his charity and we should see this as a standard for corporations to follow.

I'm confused. What exactly makes his charity genuine vs Epic's charity "disingenuous"?

Stardew seems to make choices consistent with the gaming community's interest, such as continued free updates and DLC along with reasonable pricing, messaging, and scope.

Epic values exclusive titles, walled gardens, poor support, and a scumbag CEO who will stomp over every market he can to get his next 8 Billion.

They ruined Rocket League, a game I purchased on steam while supporting Psyonix, which is now unusable until I agree to give them my PID and create an account. It's so egregious you can't even play bots offline. Every goal will move focus to a popped up browser window requesting account creation.

Everyone can decide where to draw the line on personal support, but to act like Epic is just being given shade because it's a corporation (as the comments below implied), is inaccurate.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#224

Post by squigz »

mjg2 wrote: post #199
squigz wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. What exactly makes his charity genuine vs Epic's charity "disingenuous"?

Ostensibly what u/skibidithink replied. We should have a healthy distrust of international corporations giving for unapparent reasons beyond being in the same sector. We can gesture about how a gift has no obligations, but no one gets into business to not make money, and true charity is without obligation. ConcernedApe donated to give back to the foundation he came from, while Epic is out for global domination in the…

Epic - like every other company in the world right now, particularly tech companies - was built on open-source software. Just because they may or may not have used those specific tools does not mean their desire to give back to that community is evil.

I'm really still just trying to see the whole "Epic is donating money to take over the world!" argument here. What obligation do they get from these donations, exactly?

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#225

Post by squigz »

mips_avatar wrote: post #131
gmueckl wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad truth js that for every solo devs that becomes successful, there are an untold number of solo devs that don't find an audience and fail. The reality is pretty brutal in games.

Yeah but how often do you finish a AAA game and want to cry at how beautiful it is. You get that feeling pretty often with an indie game. Like something really important is being done by indie devs.

The last game I felt that strongly about at the ending was Red Dead Redemption 2. I don't think I can recall the last indie game I felt strongly about.

Indie games are important and deserve more attention. Let's not glorify them too much though. They can be shit, just like AAA games; they can also be great, just like AAA games.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#226

Post by MangoToupe »

rvnx wrote: post #19
MangoToupe wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This indy developer (is that label fair?) is putting AAA studios to shame. For the hundredth time. He's an extremely rare person focused on quality, value, and competency. And he clearly just loves his own game Edit: Sorry? Pay for what, and risk what why? AAA studios simply cannot deliver good value in comparison. The donation is unrelated—or perhaps, arguably, open source makes this productivity possible.

Beyond love, what you prefer ? Pay 100K USD, or put at risk your 500M USD project ? Edit: if the engine is not maintained, there can be compatibility issues, it can go abandoned and lack new features, etc. It's the technical pillar of the product, like Unity.

You seem like a bitter person. I hope you find love.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#227

Post by [deleted] »

wilde wrote: post #116
sneak wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gifts do not confer obligation. Copying deprives the original party of nothing. Absolutely nothing about free software requires or even implies any responsibility to “give back”. This idea that anyone making money with free software somehow owes the original authors anything (or “should” donate a portion of their profits) is ridiculous. If the authors wanted money for their software, they would have sold it instead o…

If your friend keeps taking you out to lunch and you never return the favor, he’s probably going to stop.

[deleted]

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#228

Post by andy99 »

sneak wrote: post #111
mindcrash wrote: post #101

Not without reason: Stardew Valley, which has been sold to millions of gamers, has been created using the free MonoGame engine. So ConcernedApe is giving back to the open source software which made his commercial success possible, like commercial parties should.

Gifts do not confer obligation. Copying deprives the original party of nothing. Absolutely nothing about free software requires or even implies any responsibility to “give back”. This idea that anyone making money with free software somehow owes the original authors anything (or “should” donate a portion of their profits) is ridiculous. If the authors wanted money for their software, they would have sold it instead o…

I agree with this - I have often seen people get upset because someone used a project that was explicitly licensed to allow them to do whatever they wanted with it, with no obligation, in a way that they don’t like, or without doing something that’s apparently expected of them. This happened e.g. with whatever Amazon services wrapped open source projects.

The only way anyone knows your intent as a developer is in the restrictions and terms you release under. There are open source contributors that really want nothing. It makes no sense to say you want nothing and then get upset when you don’t get something.

If someone doesn’t like Apache 2.0, MIT, or BSD, there are lots of other options they can release the source under, or they can start a proprietary software business.

The donation here is great obviously, “paying it forward” is great, but so is using software under the terms its writer told you you could.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#229

Post by andy99 »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #184
sneak wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no moral obligation, either - that’s my point. They chose to give it away for free. It’s the author’s explicit decision that there is no obligation placed on recipients. Giving a fake gift that comes with unspoken strings attached (and “keeping score” in your head) is the passive-aggressive, immoral act. If reciprocity is expected, it is definitionally not a gift. Releasing software under a free software lic…

The license only says what you MUST and MUST NOT do. The comment you’re replying to talked about what they SHOULD do. These are different concepts and they are codified differently by humans: the former in licenses, the latter socially. You’re experiencing that process right now.

That’s certainly not a legal principle of any kind. It’s like the 17 pieces of flair thing, if they want you to have more, they should tell you, we don’t need some weird unspoken guidelines related to licenses, it’s why we have the license.

If I get tremendous value out of MS office 365 but my agreement with MS charges me only $15/month, should I donate some extra to them because of how much it helps my business?

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#230

Post by knowitnone3 »

TomatoCo wrote: post #170
sneak wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gifts do not confer obligation. Copying deprives the original party of nothing. Absolutely nothing about free software requires or even implies any responsibility to “give back”. This idea that anyone making money with free software somehow owes the original authors anything (or “should” donate a portion of their profits) is ridiculous. If the authors wanted money for their software, they would have sold it instead o…

What do you think about putting the shopping cart back in its corral?

If you do that, then you're taking jobs away.
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