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Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

mod.gov.il

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Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#221

Post by bawolff »

jmward01 wrote: post #159

The thing that worries me isn't the drone/anti-drone escalation. It is the fact that these weapons aren't actually limited to anti-drone use. Recently we have seen clear examples of countries, including Israel, that will use automatic id technology to mass tag a population. If you then have tools that can automatically track and mass kill, which this type of weapon represents, then we have reached a type of warfare t…

It seems incredibly hard to imagine what else you would do with a ground based laser other than shoot at incoming projectiles. What exactly are you expecting the Israelis to do? Change the laws of physics?

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#222

Post by breppp »

condensedcrab wrote: post #2

From Rafael’s site: https://www.rafael.co.il/system/iron-beam/ 100kW laser is nothing to joke about, but seems a good application for anti drone tasks. Fiber lasers are pretty snazzy.

The re-edited title frames this as an anti-drone system but this was foremost developed as an anti-rocket system.

Hamas and Hezbollah MO since the 1990s was based on bombing Israeli towns with statistical rockets and this system is supposed to reverse the cost equation (cheaper than those cheap rockets)

Today this is also used for drones though

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#223

Post by karim79 »

bawolff wrote: post #187
karim79 wrote: post #154

[flagged]

Its pretty well established in international law and the UN charter that all countries have a right to self-defense. Given this is a purely defensive weapon, i can't imagine what reasonable objection anyone could have to it.

Israel is an occupier. This isn't symmetrical warfare.

Israel won't let food into Gaza in reasonable quantities. It has restricted basic things like tent poles and just about any commodity which humans anywhere else in the world would have the luxury of being able to take for granted.

All in violation of international law - that which has lost all meaning in the last three or so years.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#224

Post by breppp »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75
elcritch wrote: post #70

Personally I think that defensive technology like this is fantastic. It means that innocent citizens will be protected from constant bombardment or thread of bombardment by cheap mass produced rockets or drones. Israeli civilians have faced bombardment by tens of thousands of rockets from Gaza for the last 20 years [1]. Outside the Middle East there's many areas threatened by combatants with similar cheap missiles. P…

> It means that innocent citizens will be protected from constant bombardment or thread of bombardment by cheap mass produced rockets or drones One could also hope that e.g. Iran starts focusing its economy on the wellbeing of its people versus playing regional cop to America’s world police.

They have economic related riots starting as we speak so the progressive end result (a few riots down the line) might either be this or regime change

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#225

Post by gaanbal »

bawolff wrote: post #188
andy_ppp wrote: post #121

So will we get drones coated in mirrors and temperature sensors that automatically move them away from these weapons quickly? Or is the laser just too powerful?

Its really hard to make near perfect mirrors that stay perfect in rough conditions. Mirrors arent a reasonable defense to laser weapons outside of scifi.

what about mirrors with tiny little windshield wipers?

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#226

Post by tguvot »

bawolff wrote: post #218
tguvot wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there was interview with guy from rafael who was head of iron beam project. it looks like they have some plans for dealing with icbm. airborne if I understood correctly

I guess airborne would be easier to intercept in their earlier phase before they go super fast, but then you have to have air assets in the right place at the right time. At their terminal phase icbms go at mach 25, which is pretty hard to shine a laser on for an extended period of time.

to deploy it in space can also be an option

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#227

Post by bawolff »

karim79 wrote: post #223
bawolff wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its pretty well established in international law and the UN charter that all countries have a right to self-defense. Given this is a purely defensive weapon, i can't imagine what reasonable objection anyone could have to it.

Israel is an occupier. This isn't symmetrical warfare. Israel won't let food into Gaza in reasonable quantities. It has restricted basic things like tent poles and just about any commodity which humans anywhere else in the world would have the luxury of being able to take for granted. All in violation of international law - that which has lost all meaning in the last three or so years.

> Israel is an occupier.

Not really relavent. Occupying powers still have the right to self-defense. Certainly they have the right to take defensive measures to prevent attacks on the civilian population of their primary territory, which is what is being discussed here.

> Israel won't let food into Gaza in reasonable quantities

As far as i understand the food situation in Gaza has now stabilized. However even if Israel was illegally restricting food into gaza, that wouldn't have any bearing on the legality of them setting up air defense systems on their own territory.

> All in violation of international law

Being an occupying power is not in and of itself a violation of international law. (The food thing might be. Israel is allowed to put certain restrictions on aid, but groups like the ICC have argued that the restrictions were beyond what was permissible under international law. Personally, even though it is incredibly unlikeky to happen, i hope the issue goes to trial at the ICC so we get a firm answer. However even if true, it does not mean Israel loses every right it has under international law)

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#228

Post by conception »

shigawire wrote: post #208
boredatoms wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they have a public log of preventions we can look at? Seems fascinating to look at the numbers

The heuristic is that it would be in their interest to trumpet their successes.

Not if revealing success also reveals methodology and “trade” secrets.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#229

Post by nsoonhui »

whatshisface wrote: post #192
nsoonhui wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an astonishing revisionist take on the reality on the ground. Israel unilaterally disengaged from GAZA in 2005 and pulling out generations of Jewish settlement in the process. By 2006 GAZA has zero Jews, and 2007 Gazans elected HAMAS who fired rockets at Israel because they want to free Palestine from the river to the sea, AKA eliminate Israel. October 7 attack is a culmination of that, and between then and n…

The issue with that type of reasoning is that if you swapped the parties the sentences would be the same. "Palestine removed generations of settlements from Israel, but was forced to attack because Israel wanted to wipe them out." You need to think in terms of principles that can apply equally to everybody.

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