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Fahrplan – 39C3

fahrplan.events.ccc.de

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Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#221

Post by pantalaimon »

holowoodman wrote: post #176
saubeidl wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem has been the continuous purposeful rightward shift of the overton window as part of a wider strategy by the far right. You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". You see the far-right decrying our democratically elected government as "dictatorship", a classic Putinist propaganda move. Don't let the righ…

> You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". No, things have changed in CCC as well. Back in the day, free speech (in the US definition) and a firm opposition to any censorship were consensus on CCC. Nowadays, censorship is totally OK if it targets the right. And any kind of remotely right-wing opinion is declared…

Well Joscha Bach's talk got removed this year because of that mail exchange with Epstein. But disregarding the content discussed, I found it indeed a bit off-putting how he basically licked the butthole of his sponsor between those lines.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#222

Post by immibis »

sunaookami wrote: post #219
immibis wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I can't ask a court whether you were at that conference without knowing your legal identity - care to share? And why should I expect the court to have a complete list of who was there, and to answer questions about that list? Seems much easier to ask you, and it's strange you don't want to answer.

What are you talking about? Pure nonsense. Discussions about "great replacement" never happened, that's an undeniable fact proven by court records and news media are not allowed to repeat these claims (324 O 439/24, 324 O 524/24, 7 W 78/24).

You might want to check your own source there. Seems to be the opposite of what you claim. The complaints were dismissed and the media is allowed to report.

https://rsw.beck.de/aktuell/daily/meldung/detail/lg-hamburg-...

But what does this have to do with your suggestion that I should ask the court whether you were at the meeting?

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#223

Post by moltopoco »

panick21_ wrote: post #196
moltopoco wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We might be the same age; I remember that defacing conservative websites was already a C3 thing about 20 years ago. Back then, it felt good to punch up against authoritarianism. Hackers hated Bush and his Patriot Act just as much as many hate Trump now. In Germany, the CDU is of course the perennial enemy. But what happens when authoritarianism does not come from the right, but from the left or center? (Not a contrad…

The authoritarianism quick clearly and explicitly comes from the far right, Putin and Trump. Claiming anything else is ridiclous, its not even hidden anymore. Its a clear outright endorsment. Back in the Bush days it was about defending freedom but being to invasive about doing it. Nobody was talking about Bush they do about Trump. And the CDU of old is certaintly not the modern AfD. Claiming the lefts action in covi…

That is not what I said at all. My claim is that, regardless of what the authoritarian right is doing, the left has become more tolerant of authoritarianism itself, especially to 'save democracy' (which is again reminescent of the GDR, starting from its very name).

As to why this split is happening, I'd argue it was easier to be anti-authoritarian when we were in the opposition, just as today's AfD reliably votes against Chat Control or other power grabs because it makes them look good at no cost. But the left has become a dominant force due to its long march through the institutions, and some want to use this power to crush the enemy (debanking, police raids for milquetoast internet comments). Others look at the internet compass from your sibling post and decide they'd rather hang out with people in the libertarian right than with _any_ kind of authoritarian.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying the CCC is an authoritarian organization. But I doubt they'll ever be too critical of our intransparent "Trusted Flagger" system, for example, because they know it would anger many in their crowd. 20 years ago we'd have agreed that this kind of crap only happens in China.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#224

Post by fredoliveira »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #84
fredoliveira wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to some?

Not sure the number is up from last year (I think there are fewer O/T talks this year even) but there are many talks that have nothing to do with hacking even if some of them might pigue my interest, such as the following: https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2025/fahrplan/event/... https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2025/fahrplan/event/... https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2025/fahrplan/event/... https…

I think you're missing the ethos of the event in general, and the fact that you are pointing to tracks in the ethics track or the arts track in particular.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#225

Post by sunaookami »

immibis wrote: post #222
sunaookami wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Pure nonsense. Discussions about "great replacement" never happened, that's an undeniable fact proven by court records and news media are not allowed to repeat these claims (324 O 439/24, 324 O 524/24, 7 W 78/24).

You might want to check your own source there. Seems to be the opposite of what you claim. The complaints were dismissed and the media is allowed to report. https://rsw.beck.de/aktuell/daily/meldung/detail/lg-hamburg-... But what does this have to do with your suggestion that I should ask the court whether you were at the meeting?

You might want to read the post again, the court claimed it not as a journalistic news article but as an opinion piece. And it's not the final verdict.

>whether you were at the meeting?

Where you? You are clearly missing the point.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#226

Post by saubeidl »

igneo676 wrote: post #220
saubeidl wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco is a right-wing, pro-capitalist place. The left would be public ownership of the means of production.

Nah, this is just the No True Scotsman fallacy. San Francisco is FAR more left in their politics than most of the nation. For example, the new mayor described himself as: > As a lifelong Democrat and San Franciscan, I am running for mayor to turn around the city I love London Breed, the mayor before, was endorsed by explicitly Democrat or nonpartisan individuals (including Kamala Harris) We could go on. What's ironic…

There is no left wing politician in power anywhere in the US.

Democrats are a center-right party, they do not argue for any left wing position - like nationalizing industry, abolishing markets etc etc. In Europe, their equivalents in terms of economic policy would be conservative parties like the CDU.

The fact you consider them left wing is only evidence of above overton window shift happening.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#227

Post by aspect0545 »

petterroea wrote: post #150

Going to CCC changed my life last year and really opened up my eyes. So sad I'm not able to attend this year, but hoping I am able to return soon. Anyone who understands why technology cannot be viewed in a vacuum without considering the humans who use it will fit in immediately. Do yourself a favor and go.

I’ve been thinking about going for years. What specifically was life changing for you?

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#228

Post by rumgewieselt »

holowoodman wrote: post #158
yc-kraln wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially as congress has, for as long as I remember, been about the superset of infosec, society, art, etc. IMHO it's more along the lines of complaining about any ride that isn't a roller coaster at a theme park--no one is forcing you to go on any rides, other people clearly enjoy them, they're not taking anything away from your roller coaster, and having them increases the diversity of the crowd in an ultimately…

Congress has become a radical leftist politics playground. That is the real problem. > Some people just like to complain that they have to take a shower and can't harass women like they used to like they could when congress was at the BCC and that kind of nonsense didn't immediately get you thrown out like today. You could never do that. A few years ago, some activists tried to make a fuzz with stuff like creeper car…

There is no radical left or radical right; there is only right and wrong! If you don’t understand human rights and realize that you are not the only person or creature on this planet, you need to change your point of view.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#229

Post by petterroea »

aspect0545 wrote: post #227
petterroea wrote: post #150

Going to CCC changed my life last year and really opened up my eyes. So sad I'm not able to attend this year, but hoping I am able to return soon. Anyone who understands why technology cannot be viewed in a vacuum without considering the humans who use it will fit in immediately. Do yourself a favor and go.

I’ve been thinking about going for years. What specifically was life changing for you?

I only watched two talks. Talks are not why you go to CCC, in my opinion. I spent most of CCC talking. I tried to have some projects, but I just got stuck in conversation all the time.

CCC was to me the first time I had ever been to a place where most people were like minded. I have been searching for a place where I can meet likeminded people for many years, that wasn't online chatrooms. Once I got there, there was an almost immediate "wow this is my crowd".

It does help to have friends that are somewhat networked and can show you the way and introduce you to people though, as many just sit and hang out with their usual crowd. For me, I ended up talking to a lot of the guys from the same country. I also hung out with internet friends and met their friends. It was great.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#230

Post by immibis »

igneo676 wrote: post #220
saubeidl wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco is a right-wing, pro-capitalist place. The left would be public ownership of the means of production.

Nah, this is just the No True Scotsman fallacy. San Francisco is FAR more left in their politics than most of the nation. For example, the new mayor described himself as: > As a lifelong Democrat and San Franciscan, I am running for mayor to turn around the city I love London Breed, the mayor before, was endorsed by explicitly Democrat or nonpartisan individuals (including Kamala Harris) We could go on. What's ironic…

What in the quote screams left-wing to you? Is it just because he's San Franciscan? But that would be circular reasoning: SF is left because of its mayor, and its mayor is left because he's from SF.
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