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How I Left YouTube

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Re: How I Left YouTube

#221

Post by KaiserPro »

conqrr wrote: post #16

> In the software engineering world, we exist on a ladder. We call this ”Leveling”. Career is a made up game. There are no true levels or ladders in life that you have to chase. Nobody will care or remember what you did or what level you were given enough timespan. Take the bits that you want (money, skills etc) to live life, but don't get too caught up trying to win the game.

The worst part about this is that the level is largely made up. Its a social construct.

for example a "senior engineer" at a FAANG has more "value" than lead engineer at a no-name startup.

However the skill gap between a lead engineer of a team of 6 vs a "senior engineer" at FAANG is massive.

a "Senior Engineer" (ie [e|l]5/6 at a faang) makes almost no product decisions. There is a team that makes the GUI, product, marketing, infra, and then a bunch of sub teams that look after the specific part that you are currently dealing with.

Your startup person has to make all those decisions them selves and communicate/delegate it

Being an 6/7 feels like being a teenager with a coddling parent by comparison.

But! the point is this, that name, is all just an illusion. There are plenty of E6s at FAANG that are mediocre, there are plenty of E3s that are leaders.

You must make your own worth. Sure you might be working at a no-name company, but that doesn't mean you can't be _good_. The thing that makes you _good_ at the non-coding skills: People, Architecture, communications.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#222

Post by venturecruelty »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #152
neilv wrote: post #149

> The strain comes from context switching. From 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM, I had to care deeply about our quarterly goals and production stability. Then, from 6:00 PM to midnight, I had to care about inverting binary trees and system architecture design. We really need to stop the tech interview nonsense. Here is an experienced, practicing software engineer, who can't get a job without drilling for and performing frat hazin…

So exactly what kind of interviews do you suggest that a company do at scale to hire people who will make $300K+ a year? Just talk them?

I mean, if the current Kafkaesque nightmare isn't working, then yes? You might as well read chicken entrails, at this point. At least then you'd get some diversity, if nothing else.

But the actual solution is to not let bean counters and bootcampers do the hiring, but we're a few too many programmer-generations away from anyone who actually knows what they're doing being left at most of these companies, so.

I recommend making furniture.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#223

Post by 4dregress »

I learnt a long time ago that there is no such thing as loyalty with regards to work and that if you want to get the most compensation for what you do you need keep moving until you find the place where you happy with the compensation and equally the culture.

However things will change, either at home or at work so you need to balance those out.

When I started out I had this misplaced sense of loyalty to my first job I liked and it really held me back, they paid really low wages but for some reason I felt lucky to work there.

I changed my mindset and realised I’m selling my time to them so I might as well get the best return on my time in both compensation and enjoyment.

The bottom line is you don’t have to except poor pay, bad culture and boring work. You’re in control of your life.

EDIT

Also don’t be scared to ask for a pay rise or bonus. I make a point of doing it at each review and I check its progress in most one to ones. At the end of the day its your responsibility to get paid, you’re employer not matter how good they are us always going to try and save on opex, do you need to take ownership and make sure you’re getting paid what makes you happy.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#224

Post by stickfigure »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #152
neilv wrote: post #149

> The strain comes from context switching. From 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM, I had to care deeply about our quarterly goals and production stability. Then, from 6:00 PM to midnight, I had to care about inverting binary trees and system architecture design. We really need to stop the tech interview nonsense. Here is an experienced, practicing software engineer, who can't get a job without drilling for and performing frat hazin…

So exactly what kind of interviews do you suggest that a company do at scale to hire people who will make $300K+ a year? Just talk them?

I have been running the exact same pair programming interview for ~100 candidates so far. Make a little exercise that is representative of your work, run everyone through it. Whatever you test for, that's what you should expect to get.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#225

Post by venturecruelty »

paganel wrote: post #201
venturecruelty wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Career is a made-up game, but man, being homeless and hungry sure does suck, eh?

Getting a salary that pays rent/mortgage and puts food on the table doesn't always have to be about being in a rat race (which is what the "laddering" bs really means), to the contrary.

How much does food and electricity cost for you right now?

Re: How I Left YouTube

#226

Post by venturecruelty »

wiseowise wrote: post #210
paganel wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting a salary that pays rent/mortgage and puts food on the table doesn't always have to be about being in a rat race (which is what the "laddering" bs really means), to the contrary.

People generally have different needs. Some want expensive Porsche with their mortgage and food on the table.

Some want luxuries like insulin.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#227

Post by venturecruelty »

CrossVR wrote: post #177
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of a system is what it does. If the org truly cared about under-leveled employees, it would get fixed rapidly. But they don’t. I’ve seen enough people glossed over repeatedly and then when enough people leave and the org is in a less leveraged position, then the promos are no longer an issue. Such BS.

You have to realize that a company is always optimizing for efficiency and salaries are no different. Giving out promotions when people are already working at the level they'd be promoted to is simply a waste of money. This is the author's biggest mistake. If you voluntarily work on tasks above your pay grade you are signaling to the company that you don't need a promotion.

[flagged]

Re: How I Left YouTube

#228

Post by squirrellous »

anal_reactor wrote: post #203
squirrellous wrote: post #141

Google is a somewhat widely known place where promo is a huge problem, but the problem isn’t particular to Google. Generally companies will require you to repeatedly “prove” you are worth the additional compensation before agreeing to it. The friction varies, but the structural incentives are always there. Therefore if the goal is to maximize earnings, and assuming you are a high performer, it’s in your best interest…

There's a third way. Think about maximizing salary to effort ratio instead of total salary. It might be the case that lower position has better ratio. Quiet quitting where people do bare minimum not to get fired is essentially this theory put into practice. You want to avoid a situation where you're rich but too stressed out to do anything with that money.

I feel this is easier if you treat day jobs almost as a side hustle and have significant hobbies and life elsewhere. It’s more difficult if your career heavily overlaps with what you love doing (e.g. software), except the career comes with unwanted things like politics, promos, managing others, etc.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#229

Post by codingbbq »

It really sucks to feel so undervalued. I have been working with WITCH company and the entire promotion leveling is based on favoritism. With this 90 days of Notice Period, it is nearly impossible to get through even first round of interview. Every day is a struggle to prove yourself to the handicapped managers and self doubt whether you are even worth something to leave this job and try something else. 10 years and each day is a painful struggle.

Re: How I Left YouTube

#230

Post by qweiopqweiop »

bambax wrote: post #191

> Your level dictates your salary, your stock grants, and most importantly, the scope of problems you are allowed to solve. I found myself in a situation common to many engineers at large organizations. I was operating at a “Senior” or “Staff" level (...) but my official title and compensation were stuck at just above junior level. This has to mean that the "level" does not, in fact, "dictate the scope of problems on…

To be fair, if you're a higher level you're more likely to be tasked with problems that have a wider scope, as opposed to having to actively seek them out and balance them against day to day work.
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