How getting richer made teenagers less free • Hacker News Board

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#221

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:52 PM UTC

casey2 wrote: post #157

富不过三代 Wealth does not last three generations. Most of America (at least west and east coast) is at this stage now. Look no further than startup culture were people have convinced themselves that repeated embarrassing failure is actually a sound investment strategy. This is the environment children are growing up in, of course they will all grow up to be embarrassing failures.

That may be the idiom, but evidence suggest otherwise.

See Gregory Clark's The Son Also Rises (2014), tracking intergenerational wealth in England, the United States, Sweden, India, China, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, and Chile:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Son_Also_Rises_(book)>

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#222

Post by louthy » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:53 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #209

louthy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has had some serious hardship and is certainly more resilient because of it, I can also confirm the mental scarring that comes as ‘part of the package’. I think to an extent the mental impact of it is a necessary evil. The future resilience manifests as a drive to not find yourself in the same (or an equally difficult) position again — because it’s so emotionally devastating — so you fight harder to no…

But how do you account for things like cycles of violence and PTSD? I have veteran friends that, sure, could handle being shot at better than me, but on the other hand I can go to a fireworks show without worrying about having a public breakdown. Or I got friends that suffer for lack of the structure the military provided and just veg out now, picking fights at the bar for a little excitement. Hell I guess you can de…

People with mental health issues need help and support. Just because there’s a pithy saying, doesn’t make it universally beneficial to have suffered hardship.

Not sure what else you’re expecting? I’m not advocating imposed hardship, just trying to give some context for why it can often lead to a more robust and driven person. It’s clearly not universally true.

I imagine there are lots of veterans that are able to cope and have become more robust. But there will always be mental health aftershocks, because that’s why it was a hardship in the first place.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#223

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

starsky411 wrote: post #2

This remind me of that saying - no original version but it was like: tough times makes tough people, soft times makes soft people. And I hope it’s not true. But indeed the more choices you have in life, the harder it gets to chose the right thing to do.

The original quote is from G. Michael Hopf, in Those Who Remain (2016):

"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times."

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8751435-hard-times-create-s...>

It reflects many former cyclical-view-of-history / social cycle theory concepts, dating back literally thousands of years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cycle_theory>

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#224

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

meindnoch wrote: post #74

starsky411 wrote: post #2

This remind me of that saying - no original version but it was like: tough times makes tough people, soft times makes soft people. And I hope it’s not true. But indeed the more choices you have in life, the harder it gets to chose the right thing to do.

This is a famous quote by the renowned warrior-philosopher Joe Rogan.

Predates him significantly, I suspect: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46315310>.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#225

Post by fallinditch » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

trillic wrote: post #149

fallinditch wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend is one of those 'overly involved' parents with his daughter: tennis lessons and competitions, sailing lessons and competitions, skiing lessons and competitions. He sacrificed a huge amount of time to give his daughter every opportunity. I asked him one time "do you think she might end up hating you for making her do all these activities?" He thought it would be ok. He said "it will open doors for her. She's…

What school is offering sailing scholarships? HINT: NONE. If this is true, I'd really like to know what program that is. Sailing isn't an NCAA sport, it's governed by its own association the ICSA. Sailing Scholarships are explicitly disallowed, in fact the bigger issue that's been happening in collegiate sailing is the opposite of a scholarship. Eager and wealthy parents making huge donations to sailing programs, row…

I was probably incorrect stating that it was a scholarship, my bad - I know there were some incentives, but whether it was a financial deal or not I don't know. The main point for her, the student, was that due to her sporting achievements she was given offers of places from several of the top universities so she could take her pick.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#226

Post by YaeGh8Vo » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 5:03 PM UTC

throwaway732255 wrote: post #103

TrackerFF wrote: post #15

I grew up in the late 80s/early 90s, and came from a rural place with a lot of poverty and at best working class people. We'd be outside all day long - being inside was considered a privilege. Weekdays and weekends. Decades later, most of my peers have middle-class jobs. Their kids are barely outside. Their parents are involved with them from morning to evening, or chauffeuring them between sports and other extracurr…

> Interestingly, I've heard from parents that many feel like they're both suffocating and feeling inadequate When my spouse and I were dating, we made fun of those “overly involved parents” who tried to live vicariously through their kids and over-scheduled them. Since having kids, my spouse has (over a one year period) put our 5 year old in: T-ball, swimming, dance, theater, Sunday school, church, soccer, gymnastics…

What's striking is the helplessness that seeps through your message. As if you had zero control over what happens. You're just a bystander watching what happens to your children.

It's time for you to wake up, and start exercising your own authority.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#227

Post by csa » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 5:07 PM UTC

rawgabbit wrote: post #174

fallinditch wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend is one of those 'overly involved' parents with his daughter: tennis lessons and competitions, sailing lessons and competitions, skiing lessons and competitions. He sacrificed a huge amount of time to give his daughter every opportunity. I asked him one time "do you think she might end up hating you for making her do all these activities?" He thought it would be ok. He said "it will open doors for her. She's…

These extra curricular activities, were the secret game you had to play, to get into prestigious universities. At least, it was just a few years ago. Besides niche sports like lacrosse and rowing, there was the volunteer activities like serving at a soup kitchen. When Ivy League universities saw a resume like that, they knew which social class the student belonged to.

So much of your comment is wrong:

> These extra curricular activities, were the secret game you had to play, to get into prestigious universities. At least, it was just a few years ago.

Extracurriculars have been a part of elite school admissions for about a century.

It hasn’t really been a secret for most of that time.

Some people (somewhat correctly) say that this requirement was added to discriminate against Jews at that time, but it was also an education idea (“Progressive Education” by Dewey) that gained popularity around the same time.

Regardless of what the initial catalyst was, the universities seemed to like having folks who were “doers” as a significant part of their student body.

> Besides niche sports like lacrosse and rowing

These are not “niche sports” in certain parts of the country.

> there was the volunteer activities like serving at a soup kitchen.

I can tell you point blank that serving in a soup kitchen does not help you get into an elite school.

For any school that ranks such things, if you have a laundry list of volunteer activities like this, it would get you the next to lowest rating in extracurriculars — this is basically the same as not doing anything.

The key to getting an high rating for any volunteer activity would be to show leadership (which is something the elite schools says point blank that they want) and meaningful impact.

> When Ivy League universities saw a resume like that, they knew which social class the student belonged to.

I’ve got news for you. A wide range of classes of people do these things.

There might be a floor at the absolutely lowest end of the economic spectrum (just due to instability of housing and food), but I’ve seen a ton of great examples from folks who were not upper or upper middle class. Often times necessity can be the mother of invention!

I assure you that these stories stand out to admissions committees, with the biggest challenge often being simply to get some of these folks from modest means to apply.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#228

Post by insane_dreamer » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 5:08 PM UTC

yesfitz wrote: post #213

insane_dreamer wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cars were just as plentiful in the 70s and 80s as now and yet parents weren't nearly as worried about it as they are now and kids were much more on bikes then than now -- which is a rare sight unless it's parents with their little kids on a Sunday ride in the park

Based on the census, cars were NOT just as plentiful. The number of cars per household has risen slightly[1] (although they stop keeping track after 3 cars), but the number of households have doubled[2] between 1970 and 2020. As for the bikes, it's a vicious cycle compounded by distracted driving via cell phone. Less bikes means less drivers expecting to see a bike, making it more dangerous for bikes, meaning less bi…

sure, population has grown, but unless density has increased substantially, then on any given ride you're likely to encounter similar number of vehicles than before, not counting major / commute roads of course, but those aren't the ones kids are riding on

also, bike lanes were virtually non-existent back then

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#229

Post by insane_dreamer » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 5:10 PM UTC

zkmon wrote: post #107

As children (not even teens), we were allowed to roam the farms around the village and swim in any farm-well we like entire day in the hot sun. Jump from trees into the well, chase animals, walk barefoot in the in midday of 40 deg C of summer holidays. We used to get random thorns in the feet. The kid would pluck it out by surgical poking with steel pin in his own foot. That's what I call as rich childhood.

we've replaced that with TikTok and Roblox and tell ourselves how much better society has become

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#230

Post by insane_dreamer » Thu, Dec 18, 2025, 5:12 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #78

Even in my lifetime, it seems like growing up has become increasingly a sort of highwire-walking. Especially in the educated segment that I find myself in, it seems like you HAVE to do certain things to grow up "successfully". When I was a kid, there were no expectations beyond getting a degree, and even that was a particular quirk in my father's thinking; my uncle did not make it a given for his kids. Through my old…

It's because the gap has widened between the "good paying jobs" and everything else (the "shit jobs"). The former has become more scarce which means you have to hustle more to get them or you're getting the later.