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MIT professor shot at his Massachusetts home dies

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Re: MIT professor shot at his Massachusetts home dies

#221

Post by jimbo808 »

richardfeynman wrote: post #215
jimbo808 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switched the denominator? So you were specifically talking about religious-based hate crimes? Why were you talking about that very specific subset, and why wouldn’t you mention that or imply it anywhere in your comment? You wouldn’t be… a liar, would you? Also, nice AI slop - I stopped reading at the first angle quotes.

You’re accusing me of “not mentioning the subset” while quoting a thread where I literally wrote “religious-based hate crimes.” So either you missed it or you’re pretending you missed it. But it's here in this exact thread for anyone to see. Permalink: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46304753 The DOJ/FBI table is explicit: 2023 had 2,699 religion-based hate crime incidents; 1,832 were anti-Jewish. That’s 67.9%.…

I see it now, you said that in a different comment which wasn’t the one I replied to. My bad for not noticing.

Still, restricting it to “religious-based” hate crimes is transparently misleading. Using a statistic from a narrow category to imply a claim about the whole is a classic substitution error. Either you are lacking in statistical literacy, or you are being intentionally misleading.

And let’s not forget the massive, undeniable asymmetry here that makes the entire point meaningless. None of this is sufficient to assume that a crime against a Jew is automatically a hate crime until proven otherwise.

Re: MIT professor shot at his Massachusetts home dies

#222

Post by jimbo808 »

0xack wrote: post #214
jimbo808 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, that’s not true. Your statistic is probably based on one that indicates Jews account for 69% of religious-based hate crimes, while being 2% of the population. That’s about 35 times more likely if religious-motivated hate crimes were the only type of hate crime. But they’re not, so you’re just misrepresenting the data. The most generous stat you could use would be the one from 2023-2024, which has Jews a…

Contrary to the consensus opinion, losing a war one started is not genocide. For any doubts you can use comparables for civilian deaths in various theatres of war throughout history.

Wait so the children of Gaza started a losing war and therefore must be genocided?

Re: MIT professor shot at his Massachusetts home dies

#223

Post by richardfeynman »

jimbo808 wrote: post #221
richardfeynman wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re accusing me of “not mentioning the subset” while quoting a thread where I literally wrote “religious-based hate crimes.” So either you missed it or you’re pretending you missed it. But it's here in this exact thread for anyone to see. Permalink: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46304753 The DOJ/FBI table is explicit: 2023 had 2,699 religion-based hate crime incidents; 1,832 were anti-Jewish. That’s 67.9%.…

I see it now, you said that in a different comment which wasn’t the one I replied to. My bad for not noticing. Still, restricting it to “religious-based” hate crimes is transparently misleading. Using a statistic from a narrow category to imply a claim about the whole is a classic substitution error. Either you are lacking in statistical literacy, or you are being intentionally misleading. And let’s not forget the ma…

Thanks for the correction, I appreciate you owning it.

But the rest is just another goalpost move. Quoting a clearly labeled subset is not “transparently misleading,” as you put it It’s how statistics work. I said “religious-based hate crimes” explicitly, because we were discussing hostility toward Jews. The DOJ/FBI table is explicit: 2023 had 2,699 religion-based hate crime incidents; 1,832 were anti‑Jewish.

And I already gave the “whole” denominator too: those same 1,832 incidents are 15.4% of all 11,862 hate crime incidents in 2023. For a 2% population, that is still ~7–8x disproportionate, as I've mentioned. So the “substitution error” accusation doesn’t apply here, because I didn’t imply 69% of all hate crimes. I stated the subset and then did the math for the broader denominator as well.

On the “asymmetry makes it meaningless” claim: I see you're asserting that, but you haven’t demonstrated it. FBI hate crime data is not “crime against a Jew = hate crime until proven otherwise.” It’s incidents agencies specifically classify as bias-motivated based on evidence. The well-known problem in this space is underreporting and incomplete reporting, not some magical inflation that conveniently zeros out anti‑Jewish bias. I can attest to the underreporting having not reported an assault where I was beat up on the NYC subway and told "they should have burned you all" while minding my own business on an NYC subway.

Finally, none of this was me calling any specific crime a hate crime. I explicitly said we don’t know the motive in the professor’s case. This thread started because you challenged a statistical claim. The numbers stand. Given you opened with "liar" and "AI slop," you might want to recalibrate before accusing others of ‘statistical illiteracy'.

Re: MIT professor shot at his Massachusetts home dies

#224

Post by richardfeynman »

jimbo808 wrote: post #222
0xack wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to the consensus opinion, losing a war one started is not genocide. For any doubts you can use comparables for civilian deaths in various theatres of war throughout history.

Wait so the children of Gaza started a losing war and therefore must be genocided?

Never happened.

Re: MIT professor shot at his Massachusetts home dies

#225

Post by richardfeynman »

dragonwriter wrote: post #220
richardfeynman wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's saying Hamas lost a war, that's all that happened. You're making an unrelated point, which is that genocide is often carried out in the context of war. That may be true, but that doesn't make the hoax that Israel's war against Hamas was a genocide any less false.

Israel's war against Hamas was not a genocide. (Nor was it a distinct war, but merely part of the much longer war against the Palestinian people.) Israel's war against Hamas was part of a campaign of genocide against the Palestinian people that has been conducted through much of that longer war, a campaign that it started decades before Hamas existed (and fostered the creation of Hamas, during the more intense period…

A series of unsupported claims.

Re: MIT professor shot at his Massachusetts home dies

#226

Post by jimbo808 »

richardfeynman wrote: post #223
jimbo808 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it now, you said that in a different comment which wasn’t the one I replied to. My bad for not noticing. Still, restricting it to “religious-based” hate crimes is transparently misleading. Using a statistic from a narrow category to imply a claim about the whole is a classic substitution error. Either you are lacking in statistical literacy, or you are being intentionally misleading. And let’s not forget the ma…

Thanks for the correction, I appreciate you owning it. But the rest is just another goalpost move. Quoting a clearly labeled subset is not “transparently misleading,” as you put it It’s how statistics work. I said “religious-based hate crimes” explicitly, because we were discussing hostility toward Jews. The DOJ/FBI table is explicit: 2023 had 2,699 religion-based hate crime incidents; 1,832 were anti‑Jewish. And I a…

Using a religion-specific hate-crime metric to argue about hate crimes in general is not valid inference. It’s a case of category substitution amplified by base-rate neglect, and is misleading even if every quoted number is technically true.

Re: MIT professor shot at his Massachusetts home dies

#227

Post by jimbo808 »

richardfeynman wrote: post #216
0xack wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to the consensus opinion, losing a war one started is not genocide. For any doubts you can use comparables for civilian deaths in various theatres of war throughout history.

Of course it's not and never was a genocide. But jimbo808 wishes it were, because he thinks that will help him justify the very rise in hate crimes against Jews that he also tries to downplay. jimbo808 wrote: "The most generous stat you could use would be the one from 2023-2024, which has Jews as 16%... which came along with the genocide being committed in their name." What kind of worldview motivates such a comment?…

Don’t take my word for it, but you might want to consider some of these notable organizations that have identified it as a genocide:

Amnesty International

Human Rights Watch

International Association of Genocide Scholars

UN Human Rights Office

And even some Israeli organizations, such as:

B’Tselem

Physicians for Human Rights Israel

Re: MIT professor shot at his Massachusetts home dies

#228

Post by richardfeynman »

jimbo808 wrote: post #226
richardfeynman wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the correction, I appreciate you owning it. But the rest is just another goalpost move. Quoting a clearly labeled subset is not “transparently misleading,” as you put it It’s how statistics work. I said “religious-based hate crimes” explicitly, because we were discussing hostility toward Jews. The DOJ/FBI table is explicit: 2023 had 2,699 religion-based hate crime incidents; 1,832 were anti‑Jewish. And I a…

Using a religion-specific hate-crime metric to argue about hate crimes in general is not valid inference. It’s a case of category substitution amplified by base-rate neglect, and is misleading even if every quoted number is technically true.

You’re still arguing with a sentence I did not write.

I did not use a “religion-specific metric to argue about hate crimes in general.” I said, explicitly, “69% of religious-based hate crimes.” Then, when you insisted on the “general” denominator, I gave that too: anti‑Jewish incidents are 15.4% of all hate crime incidents in 2023, still ~7–8x disproportionate for a ~2% population. Both numbers come from the same DOJ/FBI table. https://www.justice.gov/crs/news/2023-hate-crime-statistics

So the “category substitution / base-rate neglect” lecture is just a rhetorical reset button. You keep pretending I implied “69% of all hate crimes” because that’s the only way your critique has a target.

At this point the pattern is clear: 1) miss what I actually wrote, 2) accuse me of lying/AI, 3) admit you missed it, 4) reframe anyway by inventing a broader claim I never made, 5) argue against your invention.

I’m not doing more laps of that. If you want to dispute the DOJ/FBI numbers or show actual evidence of systematic inflation, present a dataset and method. Otherwise we’re done here.

Re: MIT professor shot at his Massachusetts home dies

#229

Post by richardfeynman »

jimbo808 wrote: post #227
richardfeynman wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's not and never was a genocide. But jimbo808 wishes it were, because he thinks that will help him justify the very rise in hate crimes against Jews that he also tries to downplay. jimbo808 wrote: "The most generous stat you could use would be the one from 2023-2024, which has Jews as 16%... which came along with the genocide being committed in their name." What kind of worldview motivates such a comment?…

Don’t take my word for it, but you might want to consider some of these notable organizations that have identified it as a genocide: Amnesty International Human Rights Watch International Association of Genocide Scholars UN Human Rights Office And even some Israeli organizations, such as: B’Tselem Physicians for Human Rights Israel

Appeal to authority. Nullius in verba.
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