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EFF launches Age Verification Hub

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Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#221

Post by thayne »

pksebben wrote: post #88

This keeps coming up and we keep having the same debates about what Age Verification isn't. For the folks in the back row: Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Without even reaching for my tinfoil hat, the strategy at work here is clear […

I would much rather have laws that require that certain kinds of websites return machine-readable headers describing what kind of content is on them, and then browsers, web proxies, etc. could be configured by parents, schools, etc. to block undesirable sites.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#222

Post by Razengan »

pksebben wrote: post #88

This keeps coming up and we keep having the same debates about what Age Verification isn't. For the folks in the back row: Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Without even reaching for my tinfoil hat, the strategy at work here is clear […

People are complacent. Even me, even you. We're not going to get off our 21st-century comforts asses and actually do anything to disrupt anything.

At best I may avoid using products from certain companies until I really have to, like Google and Microsoft's AIs, or clear cookies after signing into YouTube so it doesn't sign you into everything else, or write a comment here and there about how some Apple APIs like the iCloud Keychain allow Facebook etc to track you across devices and reinstalls, but I'm not ever going bother doing anything more that would actually challenge all this dystopian fuckiness.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#223

Post by triceratops »

phyzome wrote: post #115
knallfrosch wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we have to know that you're not a minor, then we also have to know who you are That is untrue

Are you aware of any age verification systems that do not have this property? (This includes being robust against law enforcement action, legal or otherwise.)

I have one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46223051

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#224

Post by EGreg »

Why is this so difficult?

Verified Credentials exist on the Web.

Drivers’ licenses exist.

Just show that you are over 18 in a zero knowledge way and be done with it. Why do they need to see your IDs?

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#225

Post by [deleted] »

jacobgkau wrote: post #191
dragonwriter wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Way to split hairs. Something being against the ToS can still be legal. Well, no, violating a binding legal agreement is illegal. > Prostitution obviously cannot physically happen on an online platform, but it sure is a convenient way to advertise and attract customers, and serve as the payment processor. Which is explicilty prohibited by the law in many places OF operates, and judging from the number of people who…

> Well, no, violating a binding legal agreement is illegal. Not touching the rest of this thread's arguments, but that isn't really true. Breaking ToS, or any other contract, is not "illegal"-- it's not a crime. It opens you up to civil (not criminal) penalties if the other party sues, but that's it.

[deleted]

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#227

Post by wkat4242 »

thayne wrote: post #221
pksebben wrote: post #88

This keeps coming up and we keep having the same debates about what Age Verification isn't. For the folks in the back row: Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Without even reaching for my tinfoil hat, the strategy at work here is clear […

I would much rather have laws that require that certain kinds of websites return machine-readable headers describing what kind of content is on them, and then browsers, web proxies, etc. could be configured by parents, schools, etc. to block undesirable sites.

And really, a locally running AI could make that assessment pretty easily even if it isn't declared. No need to destroy the whole world's privacy. Unless that was the goal to begin with, obviously.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#228

Post by mikeyouse »

SilverElfin wrote: post #181
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been illegal to sell porn to minors since approximately forever. If that is constitutional (not saying it is, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't since it's such an established practice), then I don't see how requiring age verification on porn sites wouldn't be. Requiring health warnings might be another matter, though. Not sure about that.

Does the “sell” part matter - like is it simply that the sale to minors can be regulated? If it is free isn’t it just transmission of information?

No, it's still illegal in most places to knowingly distribute pornography to minors - the law in my state starts;

> A person who sells, gives away or in any way furnishes to a person under the age of 18 years a book, pamphlet, or other printed paper or other thing, containing obscene language, or obscene prints, pictures, figures or descriptions tending to corrupt the morals of youth

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#229

Post by wkat4242 »

jacobgkau wrote: post #184
like_any_other wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance We know this because, instead of putting easy-to-use parental controls on new devices sold (and making it easy to install on old ones) with good defaults [1], they didn't even try that, and went directly for the most privacy-hostile solution. [1] So lazy parents with whatever censorship the government thinks is appropriate for kids, while invo…

Parental control software has existed for decades. It hasn't worked. Over 70% of teenagers Yes, there were other ways of trying to solve the problem. Governments could've mandated explicit websites (which includes a lot of mainstream social media these days) include the RTA rating tag instead of it being a voluntary thing, which social media companies still would've fought; and governments could've also mandated all…

> Over 70% of teenagers And we all turned out fine I might add. In fact there's a lot more attention to consent and respect for women than 20 years ago.

Of course not counting the toxic masculine far right but that doesn't have anything to do with porn but everything with hate.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#230

Post by mikeyouse »

reorder9695 wrote: post #116
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am someone who is very privacy focused. I've literally never had a social media account on any platform and I'm 42. From day one of facebook, I never wanted my information online. Like many here, I'm deeply concerned about privacy and surveillance. In real life, we think age verification is a good thing. Kids shouldn't buy porn. Teenagers shouldn't get into bars. etc... There has to be room somewhere for reasonable…

In real life the situation is different. When I buy alcohol, someone looks at my drivers licence, does not make a copy of it, forgets it quickly, and cannot tie it to other information about me. As soon as it's online and it's copies, I can't tell what happens on anyone else's servers. I don't want any company knowing my actual name and location, then that can be tied to more data, which is what Google etc have been…

Not sure if you've bought alcohol lately, but at most large grocers near me, they're scanning licenses now instead of just verifying the birth date - and I'm pretty confident those scans aren't just checking the birthdate and then deleting all record of the interaction..
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