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Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

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Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#221

Post by TimorousBestie »

beedeebeedee wrote: post #217
TimorousBestie wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might believe there are useful discussions to be had, but when a faction of readers like the GP flag or downvote every thread they don’t like, then it’s impossible to have any conversation, no matter how much good faith is brought to bear. Manually appealing to dang for unflagging is not a workable solution either. This really is an entirely unsuitable forum for this discussion.

It shouldn't be the case that people acting in bad faith can disrupt meaningful discussion between people acting in good faith. I am at a loss to suggest a better forum. Town halls, protests, talking to people on the street, Congress, etc, are not able to have these discussions either. Maybe this is not the forum, but then what is? A philosophy class you took ten years ago?

> Maybe this is not the forum, but then what is? A philosophy class you took ten years ago?

Funny that you mention it, but Israel/Palestine was also a banned topic in the “Ethics and International Law” course I took circa twenty years ago.

I advocate concerning yourself with the things you can control, which does not include this forum’s idiosyncratic moderation style.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#222

Post by KptMarchewa »

muvlon wrote: post #186
KptMarchewa wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Targeting here goes beyond reasonable expectation from a military at war. Compare that to the russian terror of lobbing 500kg bombs at random housing blocks.

Or the Israeli terror of lobbing 2000lb bombs at random housing blocks for that matter.

Yes, agreed.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#223

Post by mlyle »

ada1981 wrote: post #159
ada1981 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say 42 targets. Per the report: 42 dead, 12 of which were civilians. It follows that 30 were considered Hezbollah.

The report is 4,000 civilians injured (which means they just didn't die -- people lost fingers, limbs, eyes, etc.) Presumably if you have thousands of Hezbola people walking around within their homes, businesses, hopistals, shops, etc. it makes sense you'd have many civilian injuries when these went off. There wasn't a geo fence around them and if someone was in an NICU or preschool the explosions were indiscriminate…

I haven't seen a report of 4000 civilians injured. I have seen a report of 4000 people injured across the two attacks, but presumably some fraction of these are targets.

42 killed, of whom Hezbollah said 12 were civilians (later admitting some of the 12 were fighters).

Historical average is about half of the wounded or killed in conflicts to be civilians. < 12/42 would be a relatively "good" ratio.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#224

Post by hearsathought »

richardfeynman wrote: post #197
hearsathought wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Everything you say here is false. 1. Israel's stated goal is to neuter Hamas and return the hostages, not kill civilians. 2. Arabs speak a semitic language; the "semites" in "anti-semite" has always referred to Jews. 3. Jews, including white Ashkenazi European Jews, are levantine in origin. Their lineage traces to Judea. 4. "Antisemitic" means anti-Jew. You are using it to mean anti-Arab, but arabs are not semites 5.…

> 1. Israel's stated goal is to neuter Hamas and return the hostages, not kill civilians.

And yet so many dead civilians. It's almost like a genocial terrorist country like israel always lie. Also, I was referring to israel's genocide of the semites in palestine to found "israel" up to present day. You conveniently forgot about it.

> 2. Arabs speak a semitic language; the "semites" in "anti-semite" has always referred to Jews.

Arabs are ethnic semites who speak a semitic language. "Israelis" are non-semitic europeans pretending to be "jews". Ethnic europeans are not semites and can never be semites because they come from an entire separate branch of the human family tree.

> 3. Jews, including white Ashkenazi European Jews, are levantine in origin. Their lineage traces to Judea.

No they do not. Maybe a handful.

> 4. "Antisemitic" means anti-Jew.

No it does not because semite doesn't mean "jew". A semite and a jew are two different things.

> You are using it to mean anti-Arab, but arabs are not semites

No. I'm using semite to mean semite. Arabs surely are semites. Europeans are not though.

> 5. You did make all that up!

If arabs are not semites, then what are they? You say arabs are not semites and I'm the liar? I'm making shit up?

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#225

Post by hersko »

jackling wrote: post #141
dralley wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Targeted attacks against military/militia leadership is not terrorism - almost by definition. If it was just random devices exploding, then sure, that could be considered terrorism. But it wasn't random devices, it was communication devices procured by Hezbollah and directly given by Hezbollah to their own members for their own purposes.

The issue is that Israel has no idea where those pagers were at the time of the attack, civilians were directly hurt by the explosions: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/survivors-of-israels-page...

You think you are not allowed to do a military strike if civilians may be hurt?

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#226

Post by dang »

fabian2k wrote: post #202
dang wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there are flagged comments which are not breaking the site guidelines, I'd like links to take a look at. The moderation intention is for comments which break the site guidelines to be flagged, regardless of which side they are or aren't on. It's not possible to reach this state perfectly, of course.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46218945 That one doesn't seem to violate the rules, and there is a lot of discussion below it.

Agreed, and I unflagged that one a while before you posted your comment here - most probably you had a non-refreshed version of the page.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#227

Post by ok_dad »

breppp wrote: post #201
ok_dad wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids love to grab anything that is interesting to them.

[flagged]

Well, I guess we disagree on this, but I think it's a shit move to blow up a bunch of any object that is normally benign and which could logically be sitting next to or in the hands of an innocent. I'll die on that hill. I know it goes against most people's opinions on HN but I don't mind that. As you can see, I have some points to spare so feel free to downvote me to oblivion, even though that downvote button is meant for people who go against the rules; I don't believe I have in any of my posts in this thread, but I am willing to apologize if so.

Also, I have a thought for you: what would you call it if a foreign nation which your country had poor relations with, possibly open hostility, had blown up the work laptops (which they might take home) of a bunch of high ranking military members in your country? Would that be terrorism or a legal attack to you? What would you think of the innocent lives lost to such an attack?

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#228

Post by hersko »

cess11 wrote: post #200
impossiblefork wrote: post #8

I actually consider the pager attack to be legal. There's obviously criticism of it, but I'm fairly sure you're allowed to do this kind of thing by laws of war. Obviously this creates a huge problem for pretty much everyone though, since we can imagine that our ordinary consumer products from all sorts countries could similarly explode if we ended up at war with the manufacturers.

[flagged]

Do you know what the word "Indiscriminate" means?

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#229

Post by SauntSolaire »

cess11 wrote: post #200
impossiblefork wrote: post #8

I actually consider the pager attack to be legal. There's obviously criticism of it, but I'm fairly sure you're allowed to do this kind of thing by laws of war. Obviously this creates a huge problem for pretty much everyone though, since we can imagine that our ordinary consumer products from all sorts countries could similarly explode if we ended up at war with the manufacturers.

[flagged]

It wasn't indiscriminate, is the main point. Almost exactly the opposite.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#230

Post by dang »

richardfeynman wrote: post #138
dang wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last sentence breaks the site guidelines.

Hi @dang. Here is a factual comment of mine that does not break the rules which, along with many other comments on one side of the Israel/Palestine issue, was unnecessarily and unjustifiably flagged: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45832233

I think that one is borderline but, in the context of a topic this divisive, borderline is not so bad, so I've unflagged it.
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