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Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

evanhahn.com

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Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#221

Post by crabmusket »

crabmusket wrote: post #56

Two thoughts. Ben Thompson and James Allworth discussed an idea on an episode of The Exponent ( https://exponent.fm/ ) the idea of a "principle stack", and at which "layer" of the stack it's appropriate to address different societal issues. I wish I could find the episode again, it was quite a few years ago. The upshot being... maybe software licensing isn't the right place to address e.g. income inequality? On the o…

I think I confused two different discussions on Exponent. Here's one episode where they discuss the stack, particularly in reference to net neutrality:

https://exponent.fm/episode-168-a-community-of-loonies/

But I'm sure I remember an episode where they discuss Matthew Prince and some neo-nazi site.

The "principle stack" is a separate concept which I haven't yet found.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#223

Post by leoh »

Towaway69 wrote: post #113
leoh wrote: post #94

Change the license. There will be CVEs. Require modest payment for updates from large firms.

Blackmail? Surely that can’t be the solution. That would create a market for creating your own set of fact CVEs (using AI of course) everytime the rent came due.

Not sure how this is blackmail but ok

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#224

Post by alsetmusic »

mpol wrote: post #150
awesome_dude wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this thinking that, in reality, there's no such thing as objectively 'good' or objectively 'bad' It's all context and timing. Almost everyone that will attack this idea will present actions that are loaded with context - murder, is killing when it's bad, self defence is killing when it's good. If you look at everything, and look at it's non-contextual action, then you can easily find contextually 'good' and co…

In classic times there was no general concept of good or evil. The question was about if something is fitting in its context. With the rise of Christianity came the general concept of good or bad.

Come on. A quick search suggests that Zoroastrianism already had this a good six-hundred years before christianity. And ancient Greek philosophers were trying to define good, evil, and "God" for generations before christianity (source: I've been reading about early christianity for two years). Certainly, Judaism had it and that's what inspired early christianity (with the exception of Paul, the early leaders were devout Jews).

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#225

Post by computably »

orochimaaru wrote: post #190
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #139

"Bad guys can't use it" is per definition incompatible with free software. For this author's definition of "bad guys" (megacorps), AGPL is probably the easiest poison pill. As with all poison pills, this will also make many (most?) "good" users unable to use it. This project is no curl or database engine, it seems to be a slightly easier way to set HTTP response headers. I bet most of the uses are transitive (someone…

I don’t believe AGPL can be applied retroactively. What’s there today with MIT license stays and there can be a new version with the AGPL. Unless the author is planning major upgrades, the previous work is open to be forked and used with MIT. Open source is like free speech. We are never going to control what people can say (as in who uses the sodtware and for what purpose). But we are happy that it exists.

It's not a question of whether it can be applied retroactively, it's whether the existing license is revocable. Open source licenses are not revocable as it would defeat the purpose if copyright holders could simply revoke the original license at will.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#226

Post by crabmusket »

crabmusket wrote: post #221
crabmusket wrote: post #56

Two thoughts. Ben Thompson and James Allworth discussed an idea on an episode of The Exponent ( https://exponent.fm/ ) the idea of a "principle stack", and at which "layer" of the stack it's appropriate to address different societal issues. I wish I could find the episode again, it was quite a few years ago. The upshot being... maybe software licensing isn't the right place to address e.g. income inequality? On the o…

I think I confused two different discussions on Exponent. Here's one episode where they discuss the stack, particularly in reference to net neutrality: https://exponent.fm/episode-168-a-community-of-loonies/ But I'm sure I remember an episode where they discuss Matthew Prince and some neo-nazi site. The "principle stack" is a separate concept which I haven't yet found.

Oh, silly me. It's the episode called "principle stacks", which I didn't notice skimming through the feed, nor did Google find it.

https://exponent.fm/episode-177-principle-stacks/

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#227

Post by generalizations »

navane wrote: post #206
generalizations wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I did not. From the article. This is, unfortunately, a straightforward case of poorly-considered moralizing with extremely bad consequences. > Overall, these ideas lead me to believe that the open source movement needs to see itself as in a larger social context. Can we shift the balance of power away from massive companies and their massive harms? Can we prevent Nazis from using our software? Should we even try?…

Whoops you're right. I read it twice and completely overlooked that part. Also one of the seven bullet points points in that direction. I read it as a more "big corps exploiting open source devs" take (as were six out of seven bullet points), but they did indeed slip that in, and concluded with it even.

Upvoted but felt bad for not replying. Yeah, I initially read it as a generic "big corps exploiting open source devs" take as well. Not often someone actually says "whoops you're right" so kudos - not sure I would've done the same.

The article is an interesting philosophical situation where you know the intent is good. But maybe, they took it too far without any of the necessary caveats.

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