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Credit report shows Meta keeping $27B off its books through advanced geometry

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Re: Credit report shows Meta keeping $27B off its books through advanced geometry

#221

Post by pardon_me »

cyanydeez wrote: post #133
loeg wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other parts of the 2008 crisis are even more dissimilar to this scenario than the MBS ratings.

Right, this is more like wash trading, in that companies like Meta are trying to syntehtically make it look like there's more assets involved in AI than there really are.

> more like wash trading

This is it. I can see TSLA and a lot of bitcoin vehicles have done it too. Combined with the extent of tech companies proportion of total S&P500 market cap, along with expected energy price increases due to usage, will lead to a huge drop of worldwide confidence in US stocks once this bubble pops.

Governments who do not take enough action to stop this behavior inevitably lead to this. The US credit rating may be at risk entirely.

Re: Credit report shows Meta keeping $27B off its books through advanced geometry

#222

Post by pardon_me »

cyanydeez wrote: post #135
loeg wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or does this financing include provisions to pay the electricity bills for the next ten years which, in turn, gets used by the power company to finance the construction of a new power plant? The power company gets some kind of heads up? Mostly things like this, yeah. The hyperscalers don't want to get into the power business.

They also need artificial demand to keep the valuations of their data centers high, so generating multiple business interests creating wash trading benefits their interests.

Along with this, hedge funds got the heads up, and being smart/efficient money, went and bought up a load of power companies. This means higher profits as energy prices increase.

They would be surely rushing to invest in power infrastructure and use the AI scare (military need) to push through legislation. If they aren't doing this, they must be predicting the demand won't follow through...

Re: Credit report shows Meta keeping $27B off its books through advanced geometry

#223

Post by caminante »

pas wrote: post #218
caminante wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not good humor though. This blog is in the "no man's land" of satire v. serious. Doesn't pick a lane and people get confused, but it's not funny, "bit the onion" confused.

Poe's law applies, it's deadpan humor, finance Borat IMHO it is very well executed, pushes the right buttons, and ultimately raises the question of financial realism (if the market acts like it's true is it true? how far is it from something that you can use to pay your taxes with? and so on)

I don't get how this is pushing buttons that mainstream business outlets haven't openly ridiculed in non-opinion pieces.

It's a satire blog that's confusing or misleading people (See top HN comments.) and not getting strong reactions.

Poe's law is when someone's being sarcastic and they add a smirk emoji to avoid/seek -/+ votes. Feels different here.

Re: Credit report shows Meta keeping $27B off its books through advanced geometry

#224

Post by fragmede »

caminante wrote: post #223
pas wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poe's law applies, it's deadpan humor, finance Borat IMHO it is very well executed, pushes the right buttons, and ultimately raises the question of financial realism (if the market acts like it's true is it true? how far is it from something that you can use to pay your taxes with? and so on)

I don't get how this is pushing buttons that mainstream business outlets haven't openly ridiculed in non-opinion pieces. It's a satire blog that's confusing or misleading people (See top HN comments.) and not getting strong reactions. Poe's law is when someone's being sarcastic and they add a smirk emoji to avoid/seek -/+ votes. Feels different here.

Poe's law is when sarcasm is confused for something serious. Using /s to mark you're sarcasm as sarcasm is a cop out (which I reflexively downvote on).

Re: Credit report shows Meta keeping $27B off its books through advanced geometry

#225

Post by caminante »

fragmede wrote: post #224
caminante wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get how this is pushing buttons that mainstream business outlets haven't openly ridiculed in non-opinion pieces. It's a satire blog that's confusing or misleading people (See top HN comments.) and not getting strong reactions. Poe's law is when someone's being sarcastic and they add a smirk emoji to avoid/seek -/+ votes. Feels different here.

Poe's law is when sarcasm is confused for something serious. Using /s to mark you're sarcasm as sarcasm is a cop out (which I reflexively downvote on).

I'd offer that Poe's law is when you can't tell sarcasm or not [0] and it applies more to comments/reactions.

I don't think the term really applies here, and I also despise the emoji copouts.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

Re: Credit report shows Meta keeping $27B off its books through advanced geometry

#226

Post by pas »

csomar wrote: post #199
pas wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

someone has to service the debt, and Meta has obligations to pay if the company cannot find any other tenant - if I understood correctly

How is this different from a 5-10 year lease? You can sell the car to someone (or the construct) and he continue to service the debt or you can service the debt. Now that am thinking about it (not accountant) does a lease show as debt or not?

I think the point is that Meta really really wanted to avoid getting their credit rating downgraded, and ... went shopping for off-book financial vehicles.

On one hand they (supposedly) have enough "discounted cash flow" to do whatever, on the other hand I guess even they know it's a bubble and fallow years are coming.

Re: Credit report shows Meta keeping $27B off its books through advanced geometry

#227

Post by pas »

caminante wrote: post #223
pas wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poe's law applies, it's deadpan humor, finance Borat IMHO it is very well executed, pushes the right buttons, and ultimately raises the question of financial realism (if the market acts like it's true is it true? how far is it from something that you can use to pay your taxes with? and so on)

I don't get how this is pushing buttons that mainstream business outlets haven't openly ridiculed in non-opinion pieces. It's a satire blog that's confusing or misleading people (See top HN comments.) and not getting strong reactions. Poe's law is when someone's being sarcastic and they add a smirk emoji to avoid/seek -/+ votes. Feels different here.

There's probably an audience that doesn't read mainstream business outlets, but still has some adjacency to it through VC/startup/entrepreneurship circles.

Is it confusing people though? Have you read the real one?

Re: Credit report shows Meta keeping $27B off its books through advanced geometry

#228

Post by jrflowers »

caminante wrote: post #223
pas wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poe's law applies, it's deadpan humor, finance Borat IMHO it is very well executed, pushes the right buttons, and ultimately raises the question of financial realism (if the market acts like it's true is it true? how far is it from something that you can use to pay your taxes with? and so on)

I don't get how this is pushing buttons that mainstream business outlets haven't openly ridiculed in non-opinion pieces. It's a satire blog that's confusing or misleading people (See top HN comments.) and not getting strong reactions. Poe's law is when someone's being sarcastic and they add a smirk emoji to avoid/seek -/+ votes. Feels different here.

> It's a satire blog that's confusing or misleading people (See top HN comments.)

I think it’s equally possible that we have a blind-leading-the-blind situation here, ie one guy didn’t get the joke, posted a serious chat gpt summary, and some people assumed it was a serious article. Seeing as that was the top comment for a while, I’d bet that this discussion is a great example of how using LLMs to “understand” things can actually have the reverse effect.

Re: Credit report shows Meta keeping $27B off its books through advanced geometry

#229

Post by caminante »

jrflowers wrote: post #228
caminante wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get how this is pushing buttons that mainstream business outlets haven't openly ridiculed in non-opinion pieces. It's a satire blog that's confusing or misleading people (See top HN comments.) and not getting strong reactions. Poe's law is when someone's being sarcastic and they add a smirk emoji to avoid/seek -/+ votes. Feels different here.

> It's a satire blog that's confusing or misleading people (See top HN comments.) I think it’s equally possible that we have a blind-leading-the-blind situation here, ie one guy didn’t get the joke, posted a serious chat gpt summary, and some people assumed it was a serious article. Seeing as that was the top comment for a while, I’d bet that this discussion is a great example of how using LLMs to “understand” things…

I like your phrasing.

It's more diplomatic than what I was getting to after struggling to not allude to modafinil or Asperger's.

Re: Credit report shows Meta keeping $27B off its books through advanced geometry

#230

Post by turtlesdown11 »

caminante wrote: post #214
jrflowers wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sent it to my friend that works in corporate accounting and she thought the post was hilarious, so I guess the intended audience is pretty narrow? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That aside, I don’t think that this post by a made up bond rating agency called the Flexible Standards Group that uses phrases like “unbothered by reality” “downgrade when the shit hits the fan” is particularly difficult to parse as being humor (or at the very…

Look at all of the critical parsing here on HN of nonsensical premises, e.g., "we skipped model scenarios of default". It also has an eerie tinge of AI generated satire wrapping a real article. Can't have nice things anymore...

> Can't have nice things anymore...

That's right. The illiterate show up to shriek about things they don't understand.

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