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Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

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Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#221

Post by robocat »

wartywhoa23 wrote: post #126
watwut wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We played tag at building sites, jumping gaps meter wide and five deep, made explosives out of match sticks As someone who thinks kids should have freedom, like kids in Germany or Japan have, I hate it when ridiculous arguments like these show up. Look, if you was regularly doing all that, you probably should not have all that freedom. But, most kids are actually more reasonable, if raised right.

What problem with me as I am now would you solve if you had any power to prevent me from being a kid and doing pretty common things kids were doing then ? See, neither me nor any of my friends became terrorist bombers, heck, there is not even a single stuntman around us! On the contrary, that unimaginably dangerous activity in our childhood raised responsibility in us better than any supervision. We knew what we did.…

Also nothing says survivor bias as statements like:

  And yet every single one of my friends managed to survive this now-impossible freedom
It is nonsense to use your own example and imply it was safe, because you are mostly blind to the failure modes of the counterhistorical damaged or dead.

However, I agree with you. Kids raised in dangerous rural areas do learn. I had my fair share of close calls as a child in my city! I feel lucky to have had so much freedom. 30 years later I was told one guy I knew as a child was convicted of pedophilia: I still remember his awesome basement but I don't recall any bad close call with him (perhaps I was ugly : sorry sicko).

We don't notice many dangerous close calls. Hopefully we learn from from other close calls we did notice... I remember hammering a blank gun cartridge (ramset) until it exploded and thinking I shouldn't do that again. I also did a lot things with fire that I shouldn't have!

Some high risk activities are difficult to learn from. Philip K Dick writing about the dangers of the drugs he took: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29642422

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#222

Post by bossyTeacher »

darth_avocado wrote: post #178
foota wrote: post #158

It's interesting to me to think about a possible system where people in say roblox can only chat with each other by exchanging physical keys somehow. This way, they would be able to chat with their peers from school etc., without the danger or need for as much supervision. I don't necessarily think this is technologically feasible or something that would be accepted, but I think it's an interesting idea.

That’s pretty much the antithesis of online gaming. You’re not ONLY playing with other kids you know. Edit: There’s two problems that need to be solved. Parents need to not offload all their responsibilities to a multibillion dollar corporation and hope it works 100% of the time. And corporations need to prioritize safety more than they do now. It dumbfounds me how many times I get called the N word on Xbox and nothi…

> Parents need to not offload all their responsibilities to a multibillion dollar corporation and hope it works 100% of the time

Hard habit to kill given that so many also offload many of the responsibilities to schools

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#223

Post by chasd00 »

andrew_gs wrote: post #151

I have 10 year old twin boys, they play roblox with their friends from school, and they have a lot of fun. Importantly though they don't use the in-game chat, they fire up a group voice call on messenger kids and chat to each other through that while playing their games. They play in the lounge and I can keep a bit of an eye on what they're doing. Most of roblox is a trash fire, but there a couple of games that seem…

> Importantly though they don't use the in-game chat, they fire up a group voice call on messenger

My 15 year old does this. I thought it was interesting, he and his friends just start a call, put it on speaker, and then talk to each other while gaming.

My youngest (now 13) played a lot of Roblox when he was younger but lost interest. We’ve talked a lot about the risks and how robux is a scam, he’s even run across “gooners” in game. It reminds me of hanging out at the mall with my friends when I was his age. Plenty of risk there and you need to know how to deal with it. I remember once being offered a ride home by a stranger, the total child kidnapping stereotype, I just said something like “is this a joke?” and they took off.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#224

Post by Ekaros »

iamnothere wrote: post #212
Ekaros wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not be against banning sale of any type of mystery or lootbox mechanics to those under age of 18. Including all digital and physical products. Yes, some things will be lost, but I think it will be for better.

It’s tough to put into law because this could easily cover innocuous things like gas station gashapon machines, school raffles, and Pokemon cards. Most people aren’t going to support a ban on those. And when you try to try to target the law too narrowly, you can run into problems with loopholes or legal precedent that prevents discriminatory and targeted legislation (there is precedent around equal protection). I do…

Looking at many of these markets when you get to older demographics that have capital they start to look lot less innocuous. The amount of money and rampant speculation with random toy boxes and card games is something I question as much as actual gambling. There is lot that needs to be done to change general public opinion on this. At least when kids are involved.

I think in general movement to direction where you know exactly what you will get is significantly more healthy. There will still be lot of people who cannot control their spending. But removing the chase sounds desirable to me.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#226

Post by ronsor »

andrewmutz wrote: post #103
endymion-light wrote: post #18

I looked at Roblox recently as a nostalgia trip as I was active in the community over a decade ago when I was a kid. Genuinely insane that it's legal. Full dark gambling patterns, insane access. I think the only reason it's not been regulated is that people haven't looked closely, but it's as if someone took the worst of gacha games and decided to base their childrens platform on it.

Why is it a societal issue rather than just a parenting issue? Just don't let your kids play roblox. It's what I do and it works fine.

I think it becomes a societal issue when the product is specifically aimed at children as opposed to simply existing.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#227

Post by yoyohello13 »

parasubvert wrote: post #93
endymion-light wrote: post #18

I looked at Roblox recently as a nostalgia trip as I was active in the community over a decade ago when I was a kid. Genuinely insane that it's legal. Full dark gambling patterns, insane access. I think the only reason it's not been regulated is that people haven't looked closely, but it's as if someone took the worst of gacha games and decided to base their childrens platform on it.

Tbh making Roblox illegal feels like the same moral panic that our parents had around metal music, hip-hop, and arcades. My kid plays Roblox, I prevent her from talking to others, and I police the Robux purchases. It really is a fun platform. The problem is for parents that aren't technical, or are negligent and don't know how to police it.

I used to work at the local after school club a few years ago and we had to have several interventions when the 8-10 year old girls were talking about the grown men they were talking to through Roblox.

The grooming going on there is a real problem. At least more awareness for parents would be a good thing.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#228

Post by ndriscoll »

ed-209 wrote: post #207

Putting aside my personal concerns and frustrations with the state of parental controls (it’s hell), what does the author propose here? By his own admission the controls which companies have been pressured to implement thus far are incomplete / can be bypassed. There is of course only one, complete solution that comes to mind - universal digital ID for all humans on the internet - which is a different kind of nightma…

One possibility: hold executives, product managers, and engineers personally criminally liable for building a system that puts inappropriate material in front of children or connects them with predators, and let them figure out how they'd like to avoid that liability. Could be through building something more robust (e.g. only allowing kids to play with pre-whitelisted friends, not any anonymous user), or hiring a legion of moderators, or through not building such a platform at all. That's up to them.

We don't need to prescribe what they ought to do. It's sufficient to say what we have here is unacceptable and make fixing it be a them problem.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#229

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

tjungblut wrote: post #15

I'll probably get DV to oblivion for this, but I have to constantly wonder where those parents come from that need to forbid their children to roam freely on the internet. Didn't they grow up in an age unrestricted web either? By now we must have two generations of unhinged children grown up with unsafe World of Warcraft, MSN, Whatsapp and ICQ. Oh and the p0rn... I mean, seriously, do you guys have nothing else to do…

I can at least understand being aware of what your kid is doing, but the number of people who say they just ban X outright in there house I'm afraid are gonna be shocked by their kid's actions when they leave the house. Better to teach them when they're young then to all of a sudden have them exposed to everything when they're an older teenager/18.

And also lots of people saying the internet is worse today, I honestly don't think that's true. There's so much more moderation then there was in the early 2000s.

Re: Roblox is a problem but it's a symptom of something worse

#230

Post by jujube3 »

tantalor wrote: post #218
ed-209 wrote: post #207

Putting aside my personal concerns and frustrations with the state of parental controls (it’s hell), what does the author propose here? By his own admission the controls which companies have been pressured to implement thus far are incomplete / can be bypassed. There is of course only one, complete solution that comes to mind - universal digital ID for all humans on the internet - which is a different kind of nightma…

> author won’t stake out their position Casey Newton is a journalist - it would not be appropriate for him to have a "position" on this topic.

If it's inappropriate for him to have a "position," he should not be saying things like claiming "Roblox is a problem"
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