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In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

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221–230 of 540 posts

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#221

Medicare should cover children. Then we'd be covering children and the elderly. I think that seems fair--children deserve healthcare (just like education) as a fundamental right. It shouldn't be dependent on their parents.

It baffles me that it's so hard to argue for care for children. The response is always "but it's the parents' responsibility". Which, okay, fair, BUT if the parent is failing their responsibility (which can happen for many reasons, many of which don't need maliciousness nor incompetence), then what? We let the child die? We let the child starve? That's what I don't get. A child doesn't have autonomy, so it shouldn't…

Parents as a group have lobbied to pretty much own their children. It's hard to justify that ownership if the state is constantly intervening for basic things like healthcare, food, and education.

I disagree with this ownership, as it's pretty bad or at least not as good as what the children could have. Think about how few children received an education before the state took ownership. This doesn't mean I don't understand why it is the way it is. A large part of it in America is for religious reasons: "don't teach my children your Satanic ways." But even without religion, most people have ideas about how their children should grow up and don't trust other people to raise them better than themselves. Even if someone is a shitty parent and recognizes it, they still might prefer more control over less control because they care more about being a parent than their children.

I think, moving back to the topic of the state providing childcare, there's also two more reasons this can be bad. Too often, child support payments end up being misused to fund the parent's lifestyle and leaving the children without basic necessities. You can instead just give the children food/clothing/shelter directly, but you kind of have to provide the bigger, stronger adults in their lives the same things. This creates a perverse incentive for neglectful people to have children. They don't care about the children, just the ticket to free food/housing. Second, people who grow up poor have a lot of disadvantages in their future. Do we want to be creating a financial incentive so that a greater fraction of our population grow up disadvantaged? If the state is not cool with eugenics or taking away children from poor people, then poorer people who would otherwise choose not to have children will suddenly find it more financially feasible. Because the tax dollars came from a richer couple, maybe that richer couple now do not feel they can maintain their lifestyle with another child. Of course, you probably end up with more total children, but the balance has shifted and more people in your society will end up in the lower classes.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Do we have too many children?

In some places (esp those with low access to birth control and sub-par sexual health education), there are too many unplanned children being born to people who do not have the means to comfortably raise a child without being in poverty. Free/low-cost birth control and better sex ed are proven to reduce these instances substantially.

If someone has the means to comfortably raise a child without being in poverty do they still need free childcare then?

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#223

My current theory is that we've basically gotten addicted to importing the world's smartest kids so we have been unwilling to invest in our own children.

> so we have been unwilling to invest in our own children.

The school districts like SFUSD are actually sabotaging the growth of our kids in the name of equity. They're committed to ideas from people like Jo Boaler, and they tried very hard to dumb down the curriculum. The real tragedy is that kids from wealthy families will just get other means of education to make up the difference. It's the kids who desperately need the quality education who are going to be left behind.

If it were up to me, I'd send those people to jail (yes yes, I know. I'm just angry and lashing out)

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#224
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was done so mothers could work building tanks and airplanes, not out of any concern for the children.

Then do it today so mothers can continue to work and help the economy.

Child rearing is the most economically important task a mother can do, it's just not compensated for fairly. The wrong thing to do is ensure the parents are working for low wages + have children raised by low wage workers.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many people would start businesses if we had UBI and free health care as a safety net.

Several of the UBI pilot studies included new venture creation (including solo self-employment, not just classic business creation) as part of their measurements. The last few I looked at had zero difference in new business creation between recipients and control group. A lot of the UBI trials have actually had disappointing results. The arguments usually claim that it’s not a valid test because it wasn’t guaranteed…

The "classical" UBI argument from a liberal point of view (classical liberal, not US liberal) has typically been that UBI would lower the complexity and by extension cost of welfare by removing the needs to means-test. In Europe, UBI was typically more likely to be pushed by (by our standards) centre-right parties.

For this reason, UBI traditionally was seen negatively by the left, who saw it as a means of removing necessary extra support and reduce redistribution.

Heck, Marx even ridiculed the lack of fairness of equal distribution far before UBI was a relevant concept, in Critique of the Gotha Program, when what became the German SPD argued for equal distribution (not in the form of UBI), seemingly without thinking through the consequences of their wording, and specifically argued that "To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal".

Parts of the mainstream left today has started embracing it, seemingly having forgotten why they used to oppose it.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#226
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it turns out that things like free health care, adequate food, good schools, and all that other socialist mumbo jumbo is actually good for productivity and the economy, too.

And yet every single socialist, European country is behind the US in terms of their economic output.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/labor-productivity-per-ho...

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#227
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was done so mothers could work building tanks and airplanes, not out of any concern for the children.

Yeah, it turns out that things like free health care, adequate food, good schools, and all that other socialist mumbo jumbo is actually good for productivity and the economy, too.

Why is "the economy" our highest priority here?

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the US doesn't have a high-trust society anymore, so paperwork is a necessary evil to prevent malicious foreign actors from wiping us clean. (See: the recent Somalian autism claims scams in Minnesota).

Do you have more references about this?

It's a very recent story, but for example:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/first-defendant-charged-a...

The fraudulent provider(s) bribed parents to get their kids diagnosed autistic. As, a result, autism diagnoses of children in this community are ~3x the background rate:

https://www.mprnews.org/episode/2024/10/10/research-finds-1-...

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/researchers-find-alarming-...

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an intractable issue. It's just a matter of economics.

Agreed. If we could fund universal child care so that the ratio of caregiver to child was more like 1 to 2 or 1 to 5 or even 1 to 8 in extreme cases, then the lack of attentiveness would not be a problem. Wait a minute… that sounds like…

That sounds like the ideal situation we have decided to make unrealistic.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#230
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but that hides most of the facts about how it works. There are a lot of parties involved in this, including people paying for it and being paid for it, and those paying probably out number those getting it for free at point of use. Sweeping that under the rug is just a sales ploy, which shows what the outlet wants you to believe about this program.

That taxpayers pay for government programs isn't the big revelation you seem to believe it is.

Yes, it actually is, to many people.

Poll a random subset of people with the question "are you in favor of free childcare?". X% will say yes.

Poll another set with the question "are you in favor of taxpayer funded childcare?". Y% will say yes.

I would bet any amount of money that X>Y, and (X-Y)% of people did not think about the fact that a free government service is not actually free.

Exactly how big X and Y are, I couldn't say. But identifying propaganda and deceptive language is never something that should be discouraged, even when it's advocating for a cause you agree with.

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