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I don’t need a Steam Machine

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Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#221

Post by deng »

pwdisswordfishs wrote: post #171
deng wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

300$ BOM sounds incredibly low to me, especially now with the exploding prices for storage and RAM. Maybe they have already stocked up on it, but I doubt it. The huge heat sink also cannot be cheap. Then of course there's the whole tariff uncertainty. The lower SKUs for Steam Deck are sold pretty much with zero margin or even at a loss, as Newell said this was a strategic decision to enter the mobile gaming market. H…

The hardware does not compare favorably to a 2024 (current, in other words) Mac Mini. Consider what the Steam Machine requires sacrificing: - fewer USB-C connectors - larger physical footprint - can't buy and take it home today It's hard to do an apples-to-apples comparison between the chips, but where one is better than the other on some dimension, it's offset by some other. They're approximately comparable. Now, wh…

The Mac Mini for 600$ comes with 16GB unified memory and 256GB storage. To make it comparable, you'd need to configure it with 24GB and 512GB, resp., and voila, 999$. You are surely aware that the lowest SKUs from Apple have way lower margins, since nobody buys them anyway because who wants to live with 256GB of storage? It's just to have that sweet "starting at 599$" on the store front page.

Now, of course Apple takes ridiculous money for additional RAM and storage, but this is exactly how they achieve their famous margins (everything's soldered, so you cannot upgrade yourself). Thanks to the AI hype, DDR5 RAM is very expensive at the moment, as is GDDR5, as is SSD storage. Nobody here, including you, knows what kind of deal Valve will be able to get here. There's a reason they are not announcing any prices yet, because there are so many uncertainties at the moment (tariffs, anyone?), that most probably Valve themselves do not know yet.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#222

Post by two_handfuls »

gausswho wrote: post #149
IggleSniggle wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I've been all in on Steam for so long! The catalog is so huge, there's a massive number of fantastic couch multiplayer games. It is indeed a bit more fiddly... I've found that it's generally easier to connect my Steam Deck to the TV and play lower fidelity games than it is to fiddle with a Windows machine that needs to be prepped for friends popping in every other month. Although, Nintendo is still doing…

I used to rally friends over for couch gaming years ago. Think I'll try to put something together for Thanksgiving. Been a bit out of the loop - any recent PC couch games you recommend for normies? I think for my group, it'll lean casual / co-operative. Nintendo's always felt too kid-like for us. The Trine series was a big hit for us way back.

"It takes two", "Split Fiction" and "Lego Voyage" are the same style of casual two-player coop. Downside is it's only two players but otherwise may he exactly what you're looking for and very well made.

If you want something a bit different, check out "keep talking or everbody explodes".

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#223

Post by bryanlarsen »

Arch-TK wrote: post #157
speed_spread wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a real need for anti cheat / certified hardware. Valve is uniquely be positioned to address it because they have trust from the gaming community. Ideally a single anti cheat mechanism would be shared by all software vendors. Online games could request "console mode" involving hardware key exchange. Done right this wouldn't have to be invasive like current anti cheat.

It's either invasive anti-cheat on a vendor controlled platform or it's a totally locked down vendor controlled platform, there are no other options in the client side anti cheat space. Given that valve refuses to use KLA for their own competitive multiplayer games, and has gone out of their way to not make their hardware locked down, I really dont think they will go down the path of making a locked down platform or…

Is it truly either-or? Obviously the root of anti-cheat needs to be totally locked down, aka the TPM. But almost all "open" computers have a locked down TPM. The TPM doesn't need to prevent you from running an unsigned firmware, kernel, modules or user software, it only needs to report on whether you are / have. You can reboot your computer into "trusted" mode and run your games with anti-cheat. Then when you're done playing you can as much unsigned software as you want.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#224

Post by two_handfuls »

Yokolos wrote: post #166
cubefox wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently they don't, this says 12% to 15%: https://www.techradar.com/pro/microsoft-just-dropped-its-sto... That's still higher than what seems reasonable for a simple store front, but they aren't as bad as Valve or Apple. Note that Valve is a relatively small company with only a few hundred employees, but with one of the most extreme revenue-per-employee ratios in the world, estimated at $19 million per employee: h…

> That's still higher than what seems reasonable Based on what? Your arbitrary standards. I still don't understand what's wrong with 30% for everything Steam provides as a platform. It's perfectly acceptable. It's not making indie developers poorer. It helping to ensure Valve can focus on the things that matter to them and do things like invest in Steam Input, Proton, SteamOS, and Steam Deck/Machine/Controller/Frame/…

> It's not making indie developers poorer.

Are you sure?

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#225

Post by bryanlarsen »

eigenspace wrote: post #64
mariopt wrote: post #12

Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox. A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game library at a discount, this is why I sold my PlayStation after spending 200 euros and watching it becoming useless. I also suspect a lot of game devs will optimize for steam machine and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC. Don’t let the “low specs”…

It's certainly not an existential threat to Playstation, but Xbox certainly has weakened itself enough that yes, this could be another nail in the coffin, given that their plan was to retreat into the Windows ecosystem. The low specs aren't a problem if it's cheap enough, but for every dollar this goes above the retail price of a PS5 will seriously hurt its mass appeal. The problem for Valve is that they can't really…

> If this thing is way cheaper than a regular computer of the same spec, corporations will just buy up Steam Machines by the palette load and use them as office machines or whatever

Sure, but corporations don't want/need the same spec. They don't need the GPU, they don't need the fancy controller. If you just want a cheap PC that'll run a browser and Office, you can get them for under $200. If you want a Beelink with CPU/RAM/SSD similar to the Steam Machine, that's $350, and it includes a Windows license. Steam machine has an estimated BOM of $425, so even $500 will be a subsidized price after overhead. As long as Valve prices well above $250 it'll be safe from this concern, since corporations will likely want to add a Windows license to the cost.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#226

Post by two_handfuls »

ekianjo wrote: post #135
cubefox wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't like Valve so much if you explicitly saw the 30% Steam tax, I mean fee, declared every time you bought a PC game on Steam. Imagine if Microsoft did that. +30% for every Windows software. Like iOS. Then Steam games would be +60% rather than +30%.

Nobody prevents game devs to sell on their own website with 0% tax. Curiously, they choose to go on the market with 30% tax.

I think the thing people are complaining about is that the game devs are prevented from selling on steam and also cheaper on another store.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#227

Post by cubefox »

ekianjo wrote: post #135
cubefox wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't like Valve so much if you explicitly saw the 30% Steam tax, I mean fee, declared every time you bought a PC game on Steam. Imagine if Microsoft did that. +30% for every Windows software. Like iOS. Then Steam games would be +60% rather than +30%.

Nobody prevents game devs to sell on their own website with 0% tax. Curiously, they choose to go on the market with 30% tax.

This is because of network effects, which cause a monopoly-like situation. It's mentioned in the Wikipedia article on economic rent cited above.

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#228

Post by wayeq »

Aeolun wrote: post #2

All of this is true, but Valve is one of the best companies I know and for now, I’ll happily give them money. It’s not about the fact that I’m actually going to use it. It’s about the fact that I want people to keep making things like this. It’s about the fact I want to reward them for not locking it down completely.

first world.. solutions?

Re: I don’t need a Steam Machine

#230

Post by IggleSniggle »

gausswho wrote: post #149
IggleSniggle wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I've been all in on Steam for so long! The catalog is so huge, there's a massive number of fantastic couch multiplayer games. It is indeed a bit more fiddly... I've found that it's generally easier to connect my Steam Deck to the TV and play lower fidelity games than it is to fiddle with a Windows machine that needs to be prepped for friends popping in every other month. Although, Nintendo is still doing…

I used to rally friends over for couch gaming years ago. Think I'll try to put something together for Thanksgiving. Been a bit out of the loop - any recent PC couch games you recommend for normies? I think for my group, it'll lean casual / co-operative. Nintendo's always felt too kid-like for us. The Trine series was a big hit for us way back.

Rivals of Aesther - like Super Smash Bros but with Steam Workshop support for player-made characters... TARS (interstellar) vs Ronald McDonald vs Obama anyone??

nidhogg - deserves to be in an arcade cabinet but honestly this one is ALWAYS a hit...just 2player though

Broforce - 80s action stars in 80s action movie multiplayer platformer

Ultimate Chicken Horse - competitively build a platformer level and then race to complete the level first, best with 4 players

TowerFall Ascension - 2-4 players, also deserves to be in an arcade cabinet

Screen Cheat - FPS made for the couch; think N64 Goldeneye or Quake, but all the players are invisible, so the only way to figure out where your opponents are is to look at their quadrants (screencheat)

Overcooked 2 - it's pretty kid-oriented on the surface, but it's a game where you must out-communicate the absolute chaos unfolding around you in order to succeed...such a good couch-multiplayer experience, but best for experienced gamers imho

Rocket League

Magicka

Regular Human Basketball - control giant basketball automatons by jumping inside them and operating the manual controls in a team v team. Minimum 4 players to really work well, supports up to 10 players shared screen

That should get you started! But oops that wasn't my casual coop list, more my "makes for memorable group experiences" list.

It Takes Two, Portal 2, Untitled Goose Game, Halo Master Chief Collection was like $10 recently, all come to mind as positive local coop experiences I've had.

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