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Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

scientificamerican.com

221–229 of 229 posts

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to breed octopus to live longer. Then identify the "morph", the gene cluster, that did the trick in the initial species, to speed up the uplift for the rest of them. But given how intelligent they are, and how much they learn in their short lifetimes, completely self-directed and self-learning highly curious autodidact geniuses from the moment they escape their tiny egg, a race of long lived octopuses without…

Death follows mating for the males and the eggs hatching for the females. Not an uncommon behavior, all sorts of plants (ie agave) and animals (ie salmon) have a similar strategy. Meaning the strategy works very well, and would likely be controlled by very different genes, depending on the species. Changing this "death gene" via a breeding program is likely to fail, but could perhaps be accomplished via gene editing…

Yes, delayed reproduction would be the first step.

And simultaneously for post breeding longevity (however short that starts). Which can be done by post-selecting the young based on the phenotype of the parents. (No need for any harsh selection, simply choosing which young remain in the breeding pool, vs. which go there own way.)

Their short breeding cycles are a boon, since that allows for faster generations, and even small lifespan improvements would reflect significant change.

The high number of species is also a tremendous advantage.

All done at scale. Millions of octopus, across dozens of species, to efficiently select from as much existing genetic diversity as possible. Not just for faster gene clustering, but to gain different insights from different species that can be transferred, via CRISPR. As you noted.

And finally, also selecting for individual intelligence and social collaboration. They are unique in being an extremely socially intelligent animal, with high cross species cognitive understanding. There preference for solitude does not reflect any lack of social awareness. So this is one of the easier and potentially rewarding challenges.

Since effective intelligence in practice is a (literal) product of individuals and collaboration. There is tremendous opportunity for gain of function.

—-

Of course, I will need a vast underground laboratory under a tropical island for all this. A not-too-dormant volcano for cheap geothermal power. And a comfortably furnished submarine of my own design, for research forays, with a streamlined exterior inspired by the profile of a jetting octopus. Christened with an ominous name.

As for other resources? Well the ocean has infinite untapped resources, and I will soon have infinite assistants.

Ok, some of the latter might be me getting ahead of myself.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#223
post #59

People have been trying to make the house raccoon a thing: https://old.reddit.com/r/raccoons From what I remember spending time on this topic, raccoons need super challenging locks as toys and TONS of engagement from their keepers because they get bored easily and bored raccoons == ultra destructive raccoons. Also, rabies.

Sometimes I I think people really underestimate the circumstances needed for domestication of a species to be successful. There's this conception of our human abilities as something that supersedes the way nature works and shape things the way we want, which might at least appear to be true in a lot of cases, but I don't think that domestication can work just because we happen to want it to.

The most coherent take I've read on it is that there actually needs to be an evolutionary advantage for the species in order for the domestication to work out, which means it's essentially something that needs to take place over generations. Raccoons being cute and fluffy might be a reason that we would like to have them around, but I think the larger question is whether there's a good enough reason for them to develop a lifestyle where they hang around indoors with humans. Putting it in terms of evolution also can help clarify why the personality characteristics you mention aren't a simple obstacle to overcome; the fact that they might be better off as a species in the long run if they could just immediately switch over to being a type of house pet like a cat or dog might not be enough if the path to that from where they are now requires significant "downward movement" from a local optimum in the short term for the adaptions start becoming more advantageous so that the can reach a higher optimum.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#224
post #28

Just remember to remain wary of the cute ones. > Raccoons are a rabies reservoir in the eastern United States, extending from Canada to Florida and as far west as the Appalachian Mountain range. Within these areas, 10% of raccoons that expose people or pets have rabies, making them one of the highest rabies-risks in the United States. https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/php/protecting-public-health/inde...

> 10% of raccoons that expose people or pets have rabies I don't understand the language of this quote. What does it mean for an animal to expose people?

I think the idea is that a raccoon you encounter is conditionwlly more likely to have rabies just based on the fact that you've encountered it. My understanding is that rabid racoons are less nocturnal and far less likely to feel the need to run or hide from humans.

It's possible they botched the grammar here a little, but my interpretation is saying that if you look at the group of raccoons that allow themselves to be exposed itself to a human or pet (rather than avoiding us, which is not that hard for them to do it they want), around 10% of them have rabies.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, if you take something away from me that's mine, there's not much difference between the raccoon and myself.

You should work on that.

That kind of depends on the circumstances though, doesn't it? If someone on the street snatched your wallet out of your hands, and you felt reasonably confident that you'd be able to safely reclaim it by wrestling it back out of their hands, wouldn't you? I'm personally not very strong or fast, and I don't have any skills in terms of identifying whether someone might have a knife or something, so chances are that I wouldn't feel confident in pulling it off. If I did happen to have enough confidence that I would be able to without getting hurt though, it certainly feels like I'd be justified in doing it, and it seems like it would be more desirable than letting them take my wallet.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#226
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're pretty great pets. We had one for a while when I was a kid. Its mom got run over and we nursed it and raised it for a few months. Instinctively used the same litter box as the cats. Hung out on the couch sitting on my shoulder watching TV. Friendly and playful. Would follow people around and play with toys. The biggest challenge is that they basically have hands. He would climb up the kitchen cabinets, grab a…

A former girlfriend of mine had a picture of her mother holding a Raccoon. I asked her mother about it and she said that they lived out in the woods in Minnesota and they found it on the porch when it was a baby. The mother had died or something so they kinda raised it. It was free roaming in/out of the house but they could hold it and it would also get into their food. She mentioned one time it ate a bunch of mixed…

They have a lot in common with housecats, except that they are more clever. Decades ago we heard a crunch crunch sound from the rear mudroom. We looked and saw a raccoon reaching in and eating dry cat out of a box with the cat looking on enviously.

Camping I heard a crunching sound, looked out from the tent to see a racoon helping itself to granola in the back of the car. Lock your doors.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure thing. That one specific cat species was (and still is) Felis silvestris lybica. All domestic cats come from it and it's still the friendliest towards humans, out of all cat species. They still can and commonly bread with each other when they live in the same area. Some light reading: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-s... So, what was your evidence again?

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. But a counter hypothesis I have is that this might be from the wild population over time getting more interbreeding with escaped domestic cats, causing the apparently domestic behavior in the wild ones.

I think it should be easy to rule out with genetic research and it probably was ruled out since the research shows that domestic cats come from this wild species not yhe other way around, though they interbreed in areas where they have opportunity.

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#228
post #148
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raccoons actually do get vaccinated against rabies. There are large scale programs operated by the US government and state governments that regularly distribute vaccine laden baits from Maine to Alabama, to keep rabies from spreading to raccoon populations west of the Appalachians. If a breach occurs they also will trap raccoons and vaccinate them by injection in the area of the breach.

At first I read that as vaccine laden bats and for a moment, the world was just a little more delightful.

Could work if they're vampire bats ;)

Re: Raccoons are showing early signs of domestication

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. But a counter hypothesis I have is that this might be from the wild population over time getting more interbreeding with escaped domestic cats, causing the apparently domestic behavior in the wild ones.

I think it should be easy to rule out with genetic research and it probably was ruled out since the research shows that domestic cats come from this wild species not yhe other way around, though they interbreed in areas where they have opportunity.

Seems like there's some controversy here, with some research saying that the wildcat is endangered from interbreeding with feral domestics and others saying that its too late.
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