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Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

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Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#221

Post by overfeed »

quit32 wrote: post #198
blessedwhiskers wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes every LEO, bodega, grocery store, etc. goes out and buys the terminals to read these things though. Assuming LEOs you encounter will never just say "sorry, my reader is broken, go ahead and unlock your phone so I can bring it back to my car and type in your info to look up your license" feels naive, especially for folks with darker skin tones. I agree it's possible to present your ID without unlocking yo…

It is likely that the reader will be implemented into a phone / tablet app so will be pretty ubiquitous eventually. FWIW it will never technically be legal to rely on visually looking at someones phone to verify age / id bc it would be incredibly easy to fake the display and physical interaction. The only reason it can work as an ID is if it is digitally verified by a reader. But I do agree that especially in the int…

> It is likely that the reader will be implemented into a phone / tablet app so will be pretty ubiquitous eventually.

They may wind up ubiquitous, but reader usage will be determined by the officers in the field, on a case by case basis. Take a look at jurisdictions where body cameras are mandated but are turned off, or intentionally obstructed.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#222

Post by nozzlegear »

ghaff wrote: post #190
crazygringo wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "no thank you"? I am very much thank you. I'm still waiting for Apple to support the driver's license from my state. It will be one less thing to carry. There are literally no downsides. My state already had me in its electronic database because I'm a driver. The TSA already has me in its electronic database. Apple already knows exactly who I am from my many credit card purchases with them. It's not taking away a…

I think there are a lot of good reasons to (also) carry a small number of cards and cash. Take medical. The usual procedure if they need to scan your insurance info is to feed one or two cards through a scanner thingie. Others mention traffic stops and other interactions of that sort. Could this all change eventually? But I have no problem with carrying a small business card sized wallet if only as backup in the inte…

> Take medical. The usual procedure if they need to scan your insurance info is to feed one or two cards through a scanner thingie.

It's the usual procedure but as far as I know there's no requirement to do it. All they really need is your policy number, your name and any other pertinent insurance info. I routinely go to places without my insurance cards and just recite the info for them which they write down.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#223

Post by 0x457 »

acdha wrote: post #104
0x457 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the United States, getting an ID is expensive and time-consuming and is often inaccessible to many people, particularly those who don’t speak English, are poor, or work service jobs. No to all of that? Passport book (which you don't need unless you travel internationally) cost 165 USD per 10 years. Time-consuming...it's a one short trip to local-ish post office (not every post office has passport services). Sure…

Yes to all of that. Your experience is not universally shared, and the people who are affected disproportionately belong to specific groups which have been discriminated against in the past (e.g. Native Americans on a reservation are more likely not to have a short trip to a local post office). Here’s a summary from 2012 by people who study this professionally: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/…

> (e.g. Native Americans on a reservation are more likely not to have a short trip to a local post office).

People that choose to live on a reservation required to take a slightly longer trip once in 10 years. The horror.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#224

Post by 0x457 »

tzs wrote: post #109
0x457 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the United States, getting an ID is expensive and time-consuming and is often inaccessible to many people, particularly those who don’t speak English, are poor, or work service jobs. No to all of that? Passport book (which you don't need unless you travel internationally) cost 165 USD per 10 years. Time-consuming...it's a one short trip to local-ish post office (not every post office has passport services). Sure…

> No to all of that? Passport book (which you don't need unless you travel internationally) cost 165 USD per 10 years. This won't work for people who don't have a government issued photo ID because you need a government issued photo ID to get a passport. If you can get a passport then you've already got what you need to vote in the states with voter ID laws.

I'm aware. I'm saying getting a passport (or any state id...) in the US is not some epic battle against the system: it's a few bucks and reading comprehension to understand which documents to bring or someone to tell you what to bring.

Not only that, but I went from having zero photo IDs that aren't expired as a foreigner in the US to Real ID really quick without even making a DMV appointment.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#225

Post by 0x457 »

edot wrote: post #158
Klonoar wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I was in LAX last week, facial recognition on entry was only for US citizens anyway, and for it to work they need to take a photo of you when you're leaving. I've definitely avoided photos on exit and used it coming back in, so I'm not sure this is accurate.

Same here. I always refuse facial recognition when possible, but they had no problem using it on return from international travel. The systems aren’t linked (yet).

Why? They already have photos of you and your biometric data. All you're doing is slowing down the line for everyone else.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#226

Post by 0x457 »

v3xro wrote: post #139
0x457 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the point is that we already know (app permissions, cookie tracking consents) that "ask only what you need to function" isn't how sellers operate. Also, you need an ID to buy some OTC medicine and to pick up some prescribed medicine. As well some other cases when ID needs to be presented, but those probably require more than just DOB anyway.

Again, citing the UK here, if you go to your doctor and get a prescription, all you need to pick it up is your name + address (said verbally over the counter) - no ID needed. I do not have statistics for the false pickup rates but I very much doubt it is anything to worry about.

> all you need to pick it up is your name + address (said verbally over the counter) - no ID needed.

Does it include controlled substances? Sure, I can pick up ibuprofen 800mg with just my name and DOB said verbally, but whatever is on schedule II (US term, but think Adderall) I required to show my ID.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#227

Post by 0x457 »

throw0101d wrote: post #167
0x457 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're (e.g.) buying alcohol, then the "specific information" would be your birthday, and that is all that would be sent over. Unless there is a very tight control over this - lol nope. Big stores will request as much as they can to target you with ads.

> Unless there is a very tight control over this - lol nope. Big stores will request as much as they can to target you with ads. And you will now be informed about what is being asked for, as opposed to the current situation where if you are handing over your physical ID you may have no way of knowing what is being gleaned from it. And being informed, you can choose to accept or decline. You can also question the nee…

So assuming your goal is to buy something that requires you to show an ID (don't move the goalpost with "you can just not buy it"), my options will be:

1) show a digital ID where I can see that they are asking for much more

2) show my physical ID where they can see much more, they need

I mean, I'd pick #1 because at least it will be used just for marketing and not noting my address as I buy a lot of travel supplies.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#228

Post by FateOfNations »

Clent wrote: post #20
phantom784 wrote: post #5

Google Wallet supports this as well, but not for passports, only select state drivers licenses. https://support.google.com/wallet/answer/12436402?hl=en I wonder if passports will come to Google soon as well - that'd open it up nationwide as long as you have a passport.

Apple also supports select state drivers license. I would definitely expect Google to follow quickly.

Generally the hangup/timeline is with the state government, not Apple/Google.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#229

Post by FateOfNations »

raoulj wrote: post #87
throw0101d wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am never handing my phone to a cop. The point is that you don't have to: > To present a Digital ID in person, users can double-click the side button or Home button to access Apple Wallet and select Digital ID. From there, they can hold their iPhone or Apple Watch near an identity reader, review the specific information being requested, and use Face ID or Touch ID to authenticate. "hold … near … review" If you're…

For buying alcohol, I wonder if faceID will also somehow be required to verify the holder of the phone corresponds to the digital id

Data point: Albertsons/Safeway/etc. is rolling out new card readers that have a camera in them. Software support likely isn't in place yet, but that's definitely something they are thinking about long term.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#230

Post by [deleted] »

steve_taylor wrote: post #169
sedatk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re already doing that without digital IDs. I don’t see how this affects the other.

Part of a Digital ID is an identity provider that implements protocols such as OAuth 2 and OIDC. Once this is in place, the government that owns the Digital ID system can mandate that platforms such as social networks, search engines, email providers, etc. link the users in its jurisdiction to its Digital ID via OAuth/OIDC. As this isn't as onerous as reviewing identity documents, governments can make this a requirem…

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