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Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

seattletimes.com

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Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#221

Post by helterskelter »

reactordev wrote: post #220
helterskelter wrote: post #217

I'm in the PNW and they put Flock cameras up in my area recently. Nobody likes them (libs or cons), and we've seen some rather creative approaches to uh...disabling them. One person took a pipe cutter to the mount and spirited the whole unit away, another apparently fired a shotgun slug through it, somebody else looks like they used it to relieve their anger problems with a metal pipe. Flock cameras, America's bipart…

And yet they drive away in their GM/Ford/Nissan/Tesla/Any car/truck with its connected media unit and telemetry gathering infotainment systems and think “This is fine”.

Hey it's a start. Get people together who don't like Flock cameras and tell them about pulling the modem out of their vehicle and you'll get some bites.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#222

Post by remarkEon »

Eisenstein wrote: post #192
remarkEon wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is self-determination a human right? We certainly decided a lot of nations to the south of us didn't deserve that right. Look up the history of the banana republics some time.

Up until it conflicts with my country’s rights, yes. Not sure what you’re suggesting. Is mass migration to the United States the policy of, say, Mexico?

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#223

Post by Izikiel43 »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #131
Izikiel43 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do you expect people across the border wait a decade to get their turn for an immigration interview only to be turned down, when they can just cross the border? Well yes, that's what following the law means. They can't complain about it, it's not their country, and they don't have a say on the rules. In a similar vein by your logic, if you are in a hurry, why should you obey traffic laws when you can just run a red…

Hierarchy of needs. People want to follow the law, they need food,shelter, medicine,etc.. You can punish law breakers, but if you don't provide a way to lawfully do the thing, you're only breeding law breakers and nothing more. A missing perspective here might be that even long term imprisonment isn't a deterrent for many migrants. The disparity in living conditions is just that steep.

There is a lawfully way to do the thing. The problem is that the lawfully way wants a very small set of people with specific skills. Canada does the same, most of their immigration are university graduates. The only reason Canada hasn't had an influx of immigration like the USA is because their southern border is the USA, not Mexico.

Most of the immigration to the USA is driven for economic reasons, not political asylum or persecution. There is no right to immigrate in the USA just because you want to, you have to convince the government somehow to let you in.

> even long term imprisonment isn't a deterrent for many migrants

But quick deportation is. Imagine doing the whole trek from south/central america to the USA just to be sent back the next day. That's what deterring a lot of people now, wasting months of travel and money just to have it be worthless seems to be very dissuasive.

A lot of the latest immigration woes would be solved if the Venezuelan government was taken down and some real democratic government stepped in.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#224

Post by guywithahat »

reactordev wrote: post #220
helterskelter wrote: post #217

I'm in the PNW and they put Flock cameras up in my area recently. Nobody likes them (libs or cons), and we've seen some rather creative approaches to uh...disabling them. One person took a pipe cutter to the mount and spirited the whole unit away, another apparently fired a shotgun slug through it, somebody else looks like they used it to relieve their anger problems with a metal pipe. Flock cameras, America's bipart…

And yet they drive away in their GM/Ford/Nissan/Tesla/Any car/truck with its connected media unit and telemetry gathering infotainment systems and think “This is fine”.

Well Tesla cameras don't qualify as public record

"On Thursday, a Skagit County Superior Court judge ruled that pictures taken by Flock cameras in the cities of Sedro-Woolley and Stanwood qualify as public records, and therefore must be released as required by the state’s Public Records Act, court records show."

I do think that's an important distinction though; if I have a camera and record a public space, that's not an issue. If the government sets up a bunch of cameras, that's an issue, whether or not it's ICE, the FBI, or someone else using the cameras. I can't imagine the government will set up cameras and do non-scary things with it.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#225

Post by Izikiel43 »

Eisenstein wrote: post #192
remarkEon wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is self-determination a human right? We certainly decided a lot of nations to the south of us didn't deserve that right. Look up the history of the banana republics some time.

You seem to just realize that countries deal with the rule of might, not words. Words are worthless unless you have the power to enforce them.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#226

Post by potato3732842 »

Tadpole9181 wrote: post #214
potato3732842 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is just victim blaming people for assuming they lived in a polite society with safeguards for their rights at a higher level. Karen (I actually have spicier thoughts about exactly who's at fault here but "Karen" will have to do) who provided the political will to set up the cameras is not the victim here. Her hapless landscaper (or whatever) is the victim. This was not unforeseeable. This was playing with fire.…

> This is a BS red herring. "I don't respect facts I don't like" is not a very respectable point of view and makes me not want to engage at all. > with cell location data, metadata, private security cameras, etc I'm sure you'd argue that the government should have access to all of that data and it could never be used for "jackbooting"? EDIT: Even if you did genuinely support all that, you're doing exactly what this c…

I don't think you understand.

The police (local or federal) don't have integrations with private CCTV, historical location data, etc, etc. When they want that stuff they have to email someone, ask someone, have a reason, maybe even get a warrant, etc. Heck, even to snoop on someone's facebook they create a paper trail going through the law enforcement portal This is not a big deal for "real crime" but for stuff the public doesn't actually support serious enforcement of it's a big PITA, creates a risky paper trail they don't fully control, there's potential oversight, etc. All that constrains how far they can go without local public support.

Being able to just "go fishing" from your desk like you can with Flock (and to a lesser extent Ring), like the NSA can with all our emails and metadata, etc, etc, and all that other 1984 type dragnet stuff, is a categorical difference and nobody should have that power.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#227

Post by Izikiel43 »

duped wrote: post #204
Izikiel43 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do you expect people across the border wait a decade to get their turn for an immigration interview only to be turned down, when they can just cross the border? Well yes, that's what following the law means. They can't complain about it, it's not their country, and they don't have a say on the rules. In a similar vein by your logic, if you are in a hurry, why should you obey traffic laws when you can just run a red…

If the light never turned green you'd bet your butt that plenty of people would run the light.

Sure, then don't complain if you get into a crash and your insurance finds you at fault. Actions have consequences.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#228

Post by FireBeyond »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #101
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No matter what, the whole ICE acting like the SS thing will only result in more illegal migration in the long term, like a lot more. How so? What mechanism do you see that goes from "ICE acting like the SS" to "a lot more illegal migration in the long term"? What's the cause and effect here? Not saying you're wrong, necessarily, just... I don't see the causality at all.

A large number of people, myself included, are now radicalized against the concept of immigration enforcement. I think everyone has a duty to make sure that ICE is as ineffective as possible and ICE agents are as miserable as possible. There's a lot of talk, for example, about how the asylum system is easily abusable; that's true, but now we will not be able to fix it because no immigration reform compromise that doe…

My city, capital city, local PD (also in Washington state) put out this press release after ICE blocked up a busy intersection in peak hour chasing someone:

> [Department] was not notified of or involved in this enforcement action. By state law, city resolution, and department policy, [we do] not cooperate or coordinate with federal immigration enforcement.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#229

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

QuantumFunnel wrote: post #81
estearum wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand the logic of "there are some crime problems we're willing to accept more intrusions to solve than other crime problems?" Seems like something virtually everyone believes, and all that changes is where they draw the line of balance between intrusion and safety.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

i will never tire of the irony of a man who owned humans being lauded as a freedom fighter.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#230

Post by beefnugs »

mikkupikku wrote: post #197
wrs wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The example of Seattle Police dashcam and body camera footage may be interesting. When those things were relatively new, ten years ago or so, someone started filing daily public records requests for footage from all 911 dispatches (among other things). They wanted to build their own database of the theoretically public footage. The SPD complained that the overhead of redacting all that footage would be impossible. Ev…

Redactions are necessary to protect innocent members of the public. Going through all the footage from every officer every single day to perform these redactions would require a huge amount of manpower. That may change with new technology, but until it can be automated reliably, the WA legislature got this right. With shit like traffic cameras, I don't think redactions are necessary, although it would be nice if all…

NO, the fact that you are hitting scalability problems to do a whole bunch of redacting is a solid indicator that this is going too far on surveillance data.

The only indicator that it was done right, is that the redactions are happening in real time at the camera, only the list of license plates that have full warrant cleared authority for should be leaving the camera itself. (or full car description: color, make, model, scratches, time of day) Otherwise there is a private company with a bunch of extra-legal tracking information they will monetize utterly illegally

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