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US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

thedailybeast.com

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Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#221

Post by xethos »

dangus wrote: post #53
jeffbee wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump has no remaining mental powers and is not orchestrating this shutdown.

Mike Johnson has been speaker for long enough so that the average follower of politics probably forgets the fiasco behind his selection. He’s really not a very skilled politician at all. And of course, Trump is beyond deep fried, he’s a full blown dementia patient. He has no ability to navigate Congress. He even gave away his party’s leverage by fighting against SNAP payments, giving Democrats no reason to back down.…

Without being in favour of it, this is one reason politicians are old. Not necessarily twenty years past typical retirement, but those relationships that were so useful to Biden were built over decades. Getting elected at 40 doesn't mean you also have the history with others in government to actully get things done.

Good faith could be assumed in some other countries, and those relationships could, subsuquently, be less vital. But that's not the political environment America has found itself in.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#222

Post by Waterluvian »

epolanski wrote: post #168

ATC should, like some other essential services, be exempt the budget thing. This is a disaster in the making.

Why are Americans paying for ICE agents to terrorize America but aren’t paying for ATCs to protect Americans? What decides what is and is not an essential service?

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#223

Post by barbazoo »

least wrote: post #177
barbazoo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has the leading party made any efforts to convince any 7 of the other party? Were there reasonable concessions? If you don’t have the majority you have to negotiate, otherwise dissolve government and let the people vote again.

I’m not sure if you’re being tongue in cheek or not but the US government doesn’t really function like a parliamentary one. Elections can’t just be called, governments can’t just be dissolved, and any sort of coalition is within different factions of the two major parties. Republicans hold a majority in the Senate (which is akin to the upper house, House of Lords, or whatever else) but in order to forcefully end a fi…

I don’t understand the filibuster thing and how it plays into this.

I’m seeing the vote for the government budget or something being voted on over and over. If there is a certain majority required to pass something then it is implied that there are negotiations. If the opposition party was just expected to vote yes then why vote at all?

That’s why I’m asking, has the content of what was voted on changed significantly? Maybe taking away healthcare from people has to be done a different way. Make a bill that opens the government, then take healthcare away.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#224

Post by lurquer »

grebc wrote: post #23
nostrademons wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how the effects of filter bubbles are playing out here. Everyone believes that they have the upper hand and the majority of the American people are on their side, because computerized personalization shows them only opinions from people who agree with them. As a result, they think that the negative popular opinion for the shutdown will fall primarily on the other party, and so it is rational for them…

Reminds me of the dysfunction the Roman Republic towards the end of it’s time. It’s not unique to the US however, I think maybe we are all approaching the end of the line for current political/civil systems without further work that no one seems interested in taking.

Good grief.

The shutdown is a temporary budget squabble in a stable democracy; a banal political stunt that has happened every few years for the past few decades.

Rome’s dysfunction meant civil wars, assassinations, generals seizing poWer, private armies, and uprising (in a fundamentally different society where, incidentally, over 25% of the population was slaves.)

There has been over 2000 years of history since Rome… when a the only analogy a person can come up with is some half-baked allusion to the Roman Empire/Republic it’s a good bet said person lacks a sense of history, knowledge of current events, and common sense.

Sorry to be harsh.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#225

Post by bediger4000 »

lesuorac wrote: post #187
bediger4000 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's it, you've got it. Majority vote, take responsibility for both benefits and problems. Do away with the fig leaf of bipartisan consent.

Typically it does require bipartisan consent as the house and the senate are often not controlled by the same party. The thing to note with the filibuster is that it's only in the senate because the house got rid of theirs a long time ago.

Sure, there are sessions where negotiation must happen between House and Senate. I personally think we should abolish the filibuster - it's undemocratic in the extreme. Republicans (only!) still have the "Hastert Rule" for the House, which is equally undemocratic, and named after a convicted sex offender.

I'm urging the current Senate, controlled by Republicans, the party also controlling House and Presidency, to get rid of the filibuster because then the ruling party could not escape responsibility for their legislative actions.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#226

Post by Marshferm »

thrance wrote: post #203
Marshferm wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repealing a dictator is extralegal. This country is founded on the principle of being able to spot the pretexts (tariffs, terror-driven deportation, selective refugee status of whites fleeing black majorities, dissolving of social nets, rampant corruption) to monarchy-authoritarian leadership. It will happen all over again here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_I... We're all migrants here,…

The current DNC is waaay too weak and uninterested in pushing back against Trump for this to realistically happen. They are complete enablers of this slow fascist takeover. Your only hope now is for the democrats to experience a "tea party" of their own, and have actual leftists take the reins before 2028. Seems highly unlikely now.

It’ll be extralegal, think non linear/chaos.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#227

Post by more_corn »

lurquer wrote: post #224
grebc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the dysfunction the Roman Republic towards the end of it’s time. It’s not unique to the US however, I think maybe we are all approaching the end of the line for current political/civil systems without further work that no one seems interested in taking.

Good grief. The shutdown is a temporary budget squabble in a stable democracy; a banal political stunt that has happened every few years for the past few decades. Rome’s dysfunction meant civil wars, assassinations, generals seizing poWer, private armies, and uprising (in a fundamentally different society where, incidentally, over 25% of the population was slaves.) There has been over 2000 years of history since Rome…

We’re seeing deliberate attacks on: Fair elections Rule of law Independence of courts Checks and balances

I expect if you don’t think this is going to get bad you’re not paying attention.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#228

Post by [deleted] »

rainsford wrote: post #108
andy99 wrote: post #44

I don’t know US specifically but I know a bit about Canadian air traffic controllers. It’s a high stress but very well paying job with good pension etc. But I suspect there’s not a lot of opportunity to change to another job and get the same pay and benefits. So I guess I wonder what the end game is in resigning? Is it just people taking some pre-specified early retirement option, is it early career people that just…

Not really ATC specific, but at some point most people in most jobs can't deal with indefinitely not getting paid and will have to go do something else even if they don't have a good backup plan. Working retail, driving for Uber, etc, all have vastly better ROI at the moment than working ATC getting a $0 paycheck. In theory they'll get backpay and have better future earnings prospects than leaving for an uncertain ca…

[deleted]

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#229

Post by grebc »

lurquer wrote: post #224
grebc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the dysfunction the Roman Republic towards the end of it’s time. It’s not unique to the US however, I think maybe we are all approaching the end of the line for current political/civil systems without further work that no one seems interested in taking.

Good grief. The shutdown is a temporary budget squabble in a stable democracy; a banal political stunt that has happened every few years for the past few decades. Rome’s dysfunction meant civil wars, assassinations, generals seizing poWer, private armies, and uprising (in a fundamentally different society where, incidentally, over 25% of the population was slaves.) There has been over 2000 years of history since Rome…

Assassination & attempted assassinations have all happened within 12ish months.

You’ve got an executive branch stacking all open positions in judicial and legislative branches with their political appointees. And the executive is interpreting the law to gather as much power as possible to the head of state.

It’s not hard to see the parallels but you keep on trucking dude.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#230

Post by nullocator »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #214

This whole shutdown seems engineered to enable privatization. I wouldn't be at all surprised if ATCs get outsourced to some federal contractor.

Didn't DOGE/Musk try this or at least talk about it? Like modernizing the whole system or something? I don't think the turn around time on such a conversion would be very quick. I'm not sure there are thousands of qualified controllers waiting in the wings private sector, though maybe I'm wrong about that.
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