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Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

theregister.com

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Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#221

Post by jvvw »

jansper39 wrote: post #200
Animats wrote: post #151

Don't most people in the US get fingerprinted at some point? Let's see. I've been fingerprinted, all 10 fingers, for, at least, 1) the US Army, 2) security clearance for a DoD job, multiple times, 3) a permit to ride a horse on SF Water Department property, and 4) Customs and Border Protection Global Entry, which also took an iris scan. California DMV takes a thumbprint, but not all 10 fingers. They've been recording…

I live in the apparent dystopia that is the UK and I've never had my fingerprint or DNA taken. Seems a bit of an overreach.

I'm in my 50s and British and I've only had it done once: by the police when the house I was living in got burgled and they wanted to rule out our finger prints. It was 30 years ago and I imagine I could have refused. I didn't really think about it at the time.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#222

Post by jrochkind1 »

I remember nostalgically when this kind of thing would have been so unpopular in the USA, including (especially?) among the "populist right", that it would not have happened.

The escalation of the surveillance security state has been quick and vast.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#223

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

monksy wrote: post #142
rzerowan wrote: post #67

One thing that i would prefer in biometrics would be that the iris/fingerprints get treated as what they are publicly available and easily obtainable data. At worst using it a a secret key is similar to using your name as a hidden variable for authorisation, whent it sshould strictly be a identification token.And once leaked you cant revoke it . Back on topic , a Gattaca type system is unbelievably bleak and when(not…

Absolutely not. That is legitimately beyond insane. Fingerprints are used for investigating crimes. Giving them the access to this information before hand puts you as being investigated everytime they find a fingerprint at a crime scene.

Also, the science behind fingerprints is not particularly solid. Fingerprint experts can sometimes disagree on whether a particular print matches or not and even then, it hasn't been proven that fingerprints are unique - it's just likely to be so.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#224

Post by ModernMech »

potato3732842 wrote: post #207
pjc50 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that people really want authoritarianism, to use against their enemies.

>The problem is that people really want authoritarianism, to use against their enemies. Look no further than a typical HN comment thread on a niche public policy issue. They are rife with people scheming up all sorts of ways to thread the needle of public policy so that government enforcement action far in excess of what the public would support can be brought to bear on whoever is on the wrong side of whatever the i…

Yeah, if you go into my comment history from just this week there's a guy who told me "We won the last election. We can and will, with sadness but determination power, turn the power of the state against you and make you leave us the hell alone."

That's the mindset of an authoritarian. No needle threading here though, just use "the power of the state to" get our way (no sadness detected).

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#225

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

miki123211 wrote: post #124
rzerowan wrote: post #67

One thing that i would prefer in biometrics would be that the iris/fingerprints get treated as what they are publicly available and easily obtainable data. At worst using it a a secret key is similar to using your name as a hidden variable for authorisation, whent it sshould strictly be a identification token.And once leaked you cant revoke it . Back on topic , a Gattaca type system is unbelievably bleak and when(not…

Biometrics can be a secure secret key, as long as there's a trusted guard manning the reader, ensuring that you're showing your real fingerprint / face and not a fake.

Not very secret though, considering that they are publicly visible most of the time. You might as well get your bank PIN tattooed on your face if you think that faces are secret.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#226

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

ModernMech wrote: post #25
postingawayonhn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the assumptions should always be that one day someone like that could take power and gain access to that data.

The way to prevent authoritarians from abusing power is to not elect them, and to throw them in jail when they violate the law. They're not hard to spot; people warned about the current guy for a decade before he took over. What's happening right now is not because the government had a database lying around and an unspecified authoritarian picked it up. What's happening is that after a specific authoritarian staged a…

It still amazes me that there was no penalty for storing classified paperwork in his bathroom. I always thought that governments treated security very seriously, but apparently not.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#227

Post by tempodox »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #222

I remember nostalgically when this kind of thing would have been so unpopular in the USA, including (especially?) among the "populist right", that it would not have happened. The escalation of the surveillance security state has been quick and vast.

> surveillance security state

The only security is of those in power. For ordinary people it gets more unsafe with every measure.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#228

Post by uxp100 »

Animats wrote: post #151

Don't most people in the US get fingerprinted at some point? Let's see. I've been fingerprinted, all 10 fingers, for, at least, 1) the US Army, 2) security clearance for a DoD job, multiple times, 3) a permit to ride a horse on SF Water Department property, and 4) Customs and Border Protection Global Entry, which also took an iris scan. California DMV takes a thumbprint, but not all 10 fingers. They've been recording…

Also in the US, never been fingerprinted. Well, I think. You mentioned CA DMV, and I don’t remember a fingerprint, but I did have a California drivers license over a decade ago, so maybe? But most people don’t have security clearance, most are not in the military, most do not have global entry. Also the horse permit one is just funny.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#229

Post by im3w1l »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #222

I remember nostalgically when this kind of thing would have been so unpopular in the USA, including (especially?) among the "populist right", that it would not have happened. The escalation of the surveillance security state has been quick and vast.

I haven't fully made up my mind here, but I'm thinking that (most forms of) privacy is simply no longer viable due to technological advances. Mass collection of data is getting cheaper and cheaper, so these databases will be built. If not by the state than by corporations. And if laws prevent corporations, then by those operating outside the law like intelligence agencies (including foreign ones) and organized crime.

Having the government be the only ones without the data is a weird situation.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#230

Post by verdverm »

im3w1l wrote: post #229
jrochkind1 wrote: post #222

I remember nostalgically when this kind of thing would have been so unpopular in the USA, including (especially?) among the "populist right", that it would not have happened. The escalation of the surveillance security state has been quick and vast.

I haven't fully made up my mind here, but I'm thinking that (most forms of) privacy is simply no longer viable due to technological advances. Mass collection of data is getting cheaper and cheaper, so these databases will be built. If not by the state than by corporations. And if laws prevent corporations, then by those operating outside the law like intelligence agencies (including foreign ones) and organized crime.…

The government is an adversary that we must constantly keep in check
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