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Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

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Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#221

Post by [deleted] »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #78
QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

I read a theory that the poker winnings were not the scam. The scam was that the criminal element would HELP the NBA players cheat at poker, and then blackmail them with that info to change the outcomes of NBA games, which they were betting on, from which they could derive greater scale of winnings.

[deleted]

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#222

Post by breakpointalpha »

prodigycorp wrote: post #99
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a theory that the poker winnings were not the scam. The scam was that the criminal element would HELP the NBA players cheat at poker, and then blackmail them with that info to change the outcomes of NBA games, which they were betting on, from which they could derive greater scale of winnings.

imo that doesn't make sense. All the online betting platforms will cut off the sharps. If you are net profitable and you make too much money from them, you will get banned.

First, people who are banned from online bookies use "horses" or other not-banned players to place bets for them.

Second, the FBI is targeting real world Mafia members, who will typically be the bookies taking action from others. If they know in advance, through blackmail or collusion that an NBA player or coach will throw a game, they can exploit this versus their entire betting pool for massive wins against the suckers placing bets with them.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#223

Post by SoftTalker »

ClarityJones wrote: post #106
prodigycorp wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

imo that doesn't make sense. All the online betting platforms will cut off the sharps. If you are net profitable and you make too much money from them, you will get banned.

Yeah, that would limit the scale if they were betting against the platforms. However, if you assume they were feeding the information to the platforms...

... or if you assume that they control the platforms...

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#224

Post by tw04 »

le-mark wrote: post #86
mb7733 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you run a Jimmy John’s, most of your customers will pay with credit cards. Everything runs through banks. You can’t launder that easily. You don't need to launder it, it was acquired legally

Fast food franchises aren’t generating $1M a year either. Ok a McDonald’s in a high traffic area can, but a sandwich shop anywhere? Nope.

We’re supposedly talking about 4 major crime families, it wouldn’t be one McDonalds it would be dozens and dozens. And all legal.

Nothing about this story makes sense other other than as yet another headline to try to get people talking about something other than Epstein.

Did illegal gambling take place? I’m sure. Were 4 different crime families investing significant resources to take home barely $1m/year? I’m extremely skeptical and given this is coming from Kash “I always look like I just did a line of coke” Patel, I’d say it’s more likely than not we’re getting incomplete, if not bad information

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#225

Post by breakpointalpha »

arresin wrote: post #31
QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

It seems like so much work for relatively so little payoff. There’s a lesson here for non criminals also.

The profit from a scheme like this would likely be in the high tens of millions of dollars.

The poker game itself in high-roller situations could be a million plus per night depending on the stakes.

Then there's the whole "you owe the Mafia" angle with NBA players and coaches. It's a pretty clear line to the Mafia making tens of millions of dollars on rigged NBA games.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#226

Post by prodigycorp »

mastazi wrote: post #101

> including members of La Cosa Nostra crime families, I'm not sure if this reflects common usage in English but in Italian, Cosa Nostra is just a synonym for Mafia, not the name of a specific family. Also, in Italian it's never preceded by the article "La".

La Cosa Nostra is the umbrella term for the American Mafia, as opposed to the Sicilian Mafia (Costa Nostra)

The term was coined by the FBI specifically to make that geographic distinction.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#227

Post by SoftTalker »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #78
QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

I read a theory that the poker winnings were not the scam. The scam was that the criminal element would HELP the NBA players cheat at poker, and then blackmail them with that info to change the outcomes of NBA games, which they were betting on, from which they could derive greater scale of winnings.

Or the players were already jammed up in gambling losses and were then offered to play in these games to forgive the losses.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#228

Post by breakpointalpha »

everdrive wrote: post #75

This is probably a very HN comment, but I cannot imagine why people actually like gambling and poker: - high likelihood you lose money - the point of the game is to lie to friends and strangers - you're stuck sitting at a table and following rules for hours - the only victory condition is that you take money from other people

You don't have to lie to win at poker, you just have to bluff sometimes.

The game is similar to chess when played at a moderate to high level.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#229

Post by dopamean »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #185
bobafett-9902 wrote: post #140

All this potential jail time and reputation lost for $7 mil stolen over multiple years total??? And how many criminals split those winnings?? So the take home pay for an NBA HOF was like under $1 mil? Billups just signed an extension as an NBA head coach making well over that amount EVERY YEAR. Just sad imo

I think what happens is that many of these professional athletes grow up in communities and circumstances where it's just normal and expected to be "hustling," getting away with things, and avoiding the law. Wrong, but maybe understandable under those circumstances (poverty primarily). But then you take that person out of the "hood," and give him a $1M/yr sports contract, and the mentality doesn't necessarily go away…

I can tell you right now that the kinds of dudes who play high level college ball and then go on to play professional ball were not hustling as kids. Many did grow up in unfortunate circumstances (this is less true as the years go on) however their talents generally were identified early and the track they were on was pretty clear.

I think the simpler answer is that some people are especially poor at risk vs reward analysis. Others enjoy the thrill of getting away with something. It's been 30+ years since Chauncey Billups has had to worry about money. I think your point about friends around them is very fair though. Lots of these guys have hangers on with their hands out and despite making lots of money in their careers they cant just give cash to everyone. So I can imagine them thinking "hey place a bet on my under for the next game because I'm going to go out early" seems like a low risk, not so evil way to put a few dollars in a friend's pocket.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#230

Post by prodigycorp »

bluedino wrote: post #192
svachalek wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped watching a couple of years ago but I assume they're still doing this: dealing out every game to a different network. You needed like 4 sports subscriptions just to be able to watch the season, sometimes even to watch the championship. For me that was the bridge too far.

NFL isn't far behind NFL Network, ESPN, Prime, Peacock, YouTube...

A large portion of NFL games can be viewed on network TV. The same cannot be said for the NBA.
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