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Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?

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Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?

#221

Post by Xemplolo »

DanielHB wrote: post #206
Xemplolo wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can this be a real issue? We don't have a lot of car makers and we do not have a huge amount of EV models. Either you are doing this on small scale, than you can select one or two specific EV models and use these batterie packs or you do it in big scale, than you can also easily adapt the most x batterie packs and only use these across your system. If you go down to the cell level, its more effort true but then y…

You can't really mix different types of cells together in the same pack. Even cells with the same manufacturer and chemistry can be problematic to mix if they are at different wear levels (or even from different batches from the same factory). This is only practical if you reuse the whole pack, or at least the modules. And for that to work well you also need a lot of complex software to keep the packs working well wi…

So they already come with a BMS.

Create a MetaBMS. The BMS of the cell pack doesn't care if a car requests energy between 0 and max and a BMS doesn't care either if it gets 0-100 kWh.

My car can easily charge from a household plug up to fast charger. My car consumes very random amounts of energy while i drive.

Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?

#222

Post by jwr »

Lucian6 wrote: post #66

[dead]

> the real challenge is standardization and integration. Different manufacturers use vastly different battery management systems (BMS) and cell configurations - a Tesla pack is fundamentally different from a Nissan Leaf pack.

Isn't that exactly what the article is about? Have you actually read the article?

Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?

#223

Post by close04 »

formerly_proven wrote: post #213
close04 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Battery capacity (kWh) 13.6 It's under Weights/Capacities but you have to expand the section yourself, no way to link directly to it.

The page you are referring to is literally titled "Plug-In Hybrid Specifications" /out

Sorry, I just saw you objected to the lack of information for battery capacity, not the type of hybrid or chemistry.

Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?

#224

Post by rconti »

cogman10 wrote: post #197
beAbU wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your 2018 tesla has a battery SOH of 80%? How many km's on the clock, and how often do you fast charge if you dont mind me asking? To me that SOH stat sounds really bad!

270,000 km. And fast charging about 3 times a year. If I were to guess, the main factor harming the battery is my garage gets pretty hot in the summer (37 or 38C)

I'm not even sure how to calculate our deg! Same, 2018 3 long range. I think they advertised it as 305mi but some time later increased the capacity of the car to 315mi; I max charged it to 314 once but never quite saw that 315. I think we're around 273 as max now so 89.5% of the original quoted life, 87% of the "updated" life. Car has 115k miles, ~ 185,000km.

Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?

#225

Post by sandworm101 »

numpad0 wrote: post #125
ACCount37 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the early EV battery life projections were based on Nissan Leaf Gen 1. Which had a horrendous battery pack that combined poor choice of chemistry, aggressive usage and a complete lack of active cooling. When EVs with good battery pack engineering started hitting the streets, they outperformed those early projections by a lot. And by now, it's getting clear that battery pack isn't as much of a concern - with…

It didn't just had horrendous service life, it was designed for some set years of life to be regularly replaced and repurposed for battery storages. Nissan had business schemes outlined for that with Leaf packs. I think Tesla deserves credit for rethinking hat model into chassis-life battery packs and surpluses rather than recovered cells for grid storages. Especially considering that, resales of Gen1 Leafs milked fo…

A car chassis is essentially immortal: 30, 40 or even 100+ years. Modern steal is franky amazing compared to cars of the past. Tesla batteries are nowhere near chassis life numbers.

I was stuck in traffic behind an 87 caddy yesterday. It was not a collector car. That chassis is still on the road, seemed to be taking kids to school.

Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?

#226

Post by cogman10 »

rconti wrote: post #224
cogman10 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

270,000 km. And fast charging about 3 times a year. If I were to guess, the main factor harming the battery is my garage gets pretty hot in the summer (37 or 38C)

I'm not even sure how to calculate our deg! Same, 2018 3 long range. I think they advertised it as 305mi but some time later increased the capacity of the car to 315mi; I max charged it to 314 once but never quite saw that 315. I think we're around 273 as max now so 89.5% of the original quoted life, 87% of the "updated" life. Car has 115k miles, ~ 185,000km.

There was about 2 years of rapid drop off that I experienced and I don't exactly know why.

Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?

#227

Post by declan_roberts »

I've spoken to people about starting a Tesla EV battery replacement business here. Battery replacement on a Tesla is a pretty simple process that can be done by one person in about 4 hours.

The problem is that it's still really hard to get your hands on salvage Tesla batteries. Enthusiasts and hackers snatch them up quickly and the used price is not very competitive with a new EV replacement from Tesla.

Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?

#228

Post by bryanlarsen »

cowsandmilk wrote: post #194
jack_pp wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk enough but I assume there are good reasons, however when a website is biased and finds even bad reasons to hate that's still a problem right?

What are the bad reasons that bias electrek’s coverage?

Electrek's Fred has a ton of Tesla referral credits. Tesla owes him 2 Roadster's and has reneged. After Tesla screwed him, Fred's coverage turned from glowing to negative.

Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?

#229

Post by bryanlarsen »

noosphr wrote: post #61
epistasis wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have that exactly backwards: solar + storage is what will give us energy abundance at less money than we could ever imagine from nuclear fission or fusion. China is winning the AI Cold war because it's adding solar, storage, and wind at orders of magnitude more than nuclear. I'm not sure who's doing your supposed "envisioning" but there is no vision for cheap abundant energy from fusion. Solar and storage deliver…

China has been building out nuclear capacity at 5% a year for 25 years. Solar and wind capacity had shot through the roof in the last five years because they can't sell hardware to the west any more. The other big item is hydro power, which China has a ton of untapped potential for. Unfortunately for the West every good river has already been damed so we can't follow them there.

> Unfortunately for the West every good river has already been damed so we can't follow them there.

You don't need a river for hydro power storage. All you need are two reservoirs with a height difference between them. Typically one of the two reservoirs is preexisting and the second is constructed. ANU identified ~1 million potential sites.

https://re100.eng.anu.edu.au/global/

Re: Can “second life” EV batteries work as grid-scale energy storage?

#230

Post by bryanlarsen »

iwanttocomment wrote: post #91
bryanlarsen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just sell it though normal channels. If your battery is with more than your car then there would be people making money on the arbitrage.

I totally get that, but as the owner, perhaps I'd like to make the money on the battery before the arbitragers.

People look for used car parts at wreckers. EV batteries are no different.
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