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Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

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Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#221
post #158
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could you explain what you think the difference is? a metric is chosen, people start to game the system by doing things that make the metric improve but the original intent is lost. increasingly specific rules/laws have to be made up to make the metric appear to work, but it becomes a lost cause as more and more creative ways are found to work around the rules.

Exactly, that's the definition. It doesn't apply to timing a 100m race. There's many such situations that are simple enough and with perfect information available where this doesn’t break down and a metric is just a metric and it works great. Which is not to the detriment of the observation being true in other contexts, all I did was provide a counter example. But the example requires the metric AND the context.

Do you know certain shoes are banned in running competitions?

There's a really fine line here. We make shoes to help us run faster and keep our feet safe, right? Those two are directly related, as we can't run very fast if our feet are injured. But how far can this be taken? You can make shoes that dramatically reduce the impact when the foot strikes the ground, which reduces stress on the foot and legs. But that might take away running energy, which adds stresses and strains to the muscles and ligaments. So you modify your material to put energy back into the person's motion. This all makes running safer. But it also makes the runner faster.

Does that example hack the metric? You might say yes but I'm certain someone will disagree with you. There's always things like this where they get hairy when you get down to the details. Context isn't perfectly defined and things aren't trivial to understand. Hell, that's why we use pedantic programming languages in the first place, because we're dealing with machines that have to operate void of context[0]. Even dealing with humans is hard because there's multiple ways to interpret anything. Natural language isn't pedantic enough for perfect interpretation.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN2RM-CHkuI

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#222
post #17

This has nothing to do with superintelligence, it's just the people that were working on the paper prior to the re-org happened to publish after the name change. Though it is notable that contrary to many (on HN and Twitter) that Meta would stop publishing papers and be like other AI labs (e.g. OpenAI). They're continued their rapid pace of releasing papers AND open source models.

What model(s) have Meta released since the Lab re-org? Also, that wasn't based on purely hearsay, Zuck explicitly said: > We believe the benefits of superintelligence should be shared with the world as broadly as possible. That said, superintelligence will raise novel safety concerns. We'll need to be rigorous about mitigating these risks and careful about what we choose to open source. Still, we believe that buildin…

When did Zuck start caring about society?

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#223
post #17

This has nothing to do with superintelligence, it's just the people that were working on the paper prior to the re-org happened to publish after the name change. Though it is notable that contrary to many (on HN and Twitter) that Meta would stop publishing papers and be like other AI labs (e.g. OpenAI). They're continued their rapid pace of releasing papers AND open source models.

What model(s) have Meta released since the Lab re-org? Also, that wasn't based on purely hearsay, Zuck explicitly said: > We believe the benefits of superintelligence should be shared with the world as broadly as possible. That said, superintelligence will raise novel safety concerns. We'll need to be rigorous about mitigating these risks and careful about what we choose to open source. Still, we believe that buildin…

> We believe the benefits of superintelligence should be shared with the world as broadly as possible.

i'd interpret that as meaning "everybody is welcome to be our customer, but we're still control all of it"

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't what Goodhart's law is about. Sure, if you get a ruler from the store it might be off by a fraction of a percent in a way that usually doesn't matter and occasionally does, but even if you could measure distance exactly that doesn't get you out of it. Because what Goodhart's law is really about is bureaucratic cleavage. People care about lots of diverging and overlapping things, but bureaucratic rules don'…

I agree with you, in a way. I've just taken another step to understand the philosophy of those bureaucrats. Clearly they have some logic, right? So we have to understand why they think they can organize and regulate from the spreadsheet. Ultimately it comes down to a belief that the measurements (or numbers) are "good enough" and that they have a good understanding of how to interpret them. Which with many bureaucrac…

In a sense you can do the same thing to yourself. If you self-impose a target and try to meet it while ignoring a lot of things that you're not measuring even though they're still important, you can unintentionally sacrifice those things. But there's a difference.

In that case you have to not notice it, which sets a much lower cap on how messed up things can get. If things are really on fire then you notice right away and you have the agency to do something different.

Whereas if the target is imposed by a far-off hierarchy or regulatory bureaucracy, the people on the ground who notice that things are going wrong have no authority to change it, which means they carry on going wrong.

Or put it this way: The degree to which it's a problem is proportional to the size of the bureaucracy. You can cause some trouble for yourself if you're not paying attention but you're still directly exposed to "hear reason or she'll make you feel her". If it's just you and your boss who you talk to every day, that's not as good but it's still not that bad. But if the people imposing the target aren't even in the same state, you can be filling the morgue with bodies and still not have them notice.

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#225
post #62

It's kinda funny, Meta has long had some of the best in the field, but left them untapped. I really think if they just took a step back and stop being so metric focused and let their people freely explore then they'd be winning the AI race. But with this new team, I feel like meta mostly hired the people who are really good at gaming the system. The people that care more about the money than the research. A bit of th…

My theory is that as more people compete, the top candidates become those who are best at gaming the system rather than actually being the best. Someone has probably studied this. My only evidence is job applications for GAFAM and Tinder tho.

that's what happens at the top of most competitive domains. Just take a look at pro sports; guys are looking for millimeters to shave off and they turn to "playing the game" rather than merely improving athletic performance. Watching a football game (either kind) and a not-small portion of the action is guys trying to draw penalties or exploit the rules to get an edge.

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#226
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would a more informative, less clickbaity title be? (preferably using representative language from the article)

Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

Ok thanks! Belatedly updated.

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#227
post #36

Can we have a more informative, less clickbaity, title?

there should be a guideline to get rid of clickbait titles. its an epidemic here

There is of course such a guideline: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We don't catch every case, but if you're talking about the frontpage, I'm surprised to hear you say "epidemic". What are some recent examples?

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> was not functionally CTO of OpenAI. Why do you say that?

Her history was entirely non technical up until openAI.

I think that's total BS, based on this article about her, https://fortune.com/2025/10/03/mira-murati-career-ai-thinkin...

1. She has 2 BAs, one in math and one in mechanical engineering.

2. She was an "Advanced Concepts Engineer at Zodiac Aerospace from 2012 to 2013".

3. She was a product manager at Tesla on the Model X

4. She was VP of product and engineering at Leap Motion.

Going from that fact that she wasn't a deep learning researcher to "her history was entirely non technical up until Open AI" is plain false. And plus, the job of CTO is 90%+ people management, and she appears more than smart enough and experienced enough to evaluate technical decisions of her team.

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so addition is not associative?

I think you're missing the point

It's a pretty exotic type of addition that would lead to the second set of examples, just trying to get an idea of its nature.

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What model(s) have Meta released since the Lab re-org? Also, that wasn't based on purely hearsay, Zuck explicitly said: > We believe the benefits of superintelligence should be shared with the world as broadly as possible. That said, superintelligence will raise novel safety concerns. We'll need to be rigorous about mitigating these risks and careful about what we choose to open source. Still, we believe that buildin…

When did Zuck start caring about society?

Is this a trick question? Probably before he was even born.
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