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California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

gov.ca.gov

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Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#221
post #166
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first impression of your post was “it’s not perfect why do it?” - I hope I’m wrong. Hard to tell on the interwebs so apologies if that wasn’t the intent.

What if it was worded. Doing this distracts from the real issues like ip thief. Does a published safety plan really help or is this just another regulation / red tape exercise that increases government headcount/cost for political purposes?

Or for performative purposes. I doubt it's to increase headcount.

But, I ask, should they do nothing?

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#222
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to hope so. They'll agree, until the bubble is prone to bursting and then suddenly that fine might be better to eat.

There is no bubble. Your priors are not serving you well here.

Why do you say that there is no bubble? Do you feel the investment that went in to this justifies the results and returns?

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#223
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re overestimating the number of authors, and forgetting there’s several AI companies. A revenue sharing agreement with 10% going to creators isn’t unrealistic. Google’s revenue was 300 billion with 100 billion in profits last year, the AI industry may never reach that size but 1$/person on the planet is only 8 billion dollars, drop that to 70% of people are online so your down to 5.6 billion. That’s assum…

> Google’s revenue was 300 billion with 100 billion in profits last year, the AI industry may never reach that size but 1$/person on the planet is only 8 billion dollars, drop that to 70% of people are online so your down to 5.6 billion. Google is a huge conglomerate and a poor choice for making estimates because the bulk of their revenue comes from "advertising" with no obvious way to distinguish what proportion of…

> Google is a huge conglomerate

The point of comparison was simple a large company here, the current size of say OpenAI when the technology is still fairly shitty is a poor benchmark for where the industry is going. LLM’s may even get superseded by something else, but whatever form AI takes training it is going to require work from other people outside the company in question.

Attribution is solvable both at a technical and legal level. There’s a reasonable argument a romance novelist isn’t contributing much value, but that’s not an argument nobody should be getting anything. Presumably the best solution for finding value is let the open market decide the rough negotiations.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#224
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google’s revenue was 300 billion with 100 billion in profits last year, the AI industry may never reach that size but 1$/person on the planet is only 8 billion dollars, drop that to 70% of people are online so your down to 5.6 billion. Google is a huge conglomerate and a poor choice for making estimates because the bulk of their revenue comes from "advertising" with no obvious way to distinguish what proportion of…

> Google is a huge conglomerate The point of comparison was simple a large company here, the current size of say OpenAI when the technology is still fairly shitty is a poor benchmark for where the industry is going. LLM’s may even get superseded by something else, but whatever form AI takes training it is going to require work from other people outside the company in question. Attribution is solvable both at a techni…

> LLM’s may even get superseded by something else, but whatever form AI takes training it is going to require work from other people outside the company in question.

It's going to require training data, but no incremental work is actually being done; it's being trained on things that were written for an independent purpose and would still have been written whether they were used as training data or not.

If something was actually written for the sole purpose of being training data, it probably wouldn't even be very good for that.

> Attribution is solvable both at a technical and legal level.

Based on how this stuff works, it's actually really hard. It's a statistical model, so the output generally isn't based on any single thing, it's based a fraction of a percent each on thousands of different things and the models can't even tell you which ones.

When they cite sources I suspect it's not even the model choosing the sources from training data, it's a search engine providing the sources as context. Run a local LLM and see what proportion of the time you can get it to generate a URL with a path you can actually load.

> Presumably the best solution for finding value is let the open market decide the rough negotiations.

That's exactly the thing that doesn't work here because of the transaction costs. If you write a blog, are you supposed to negotiate with Google so they can pay you half a french fry for using it as training data? Neither party has any use for that; the cost of performing the negotiations is more than the value of the transaction. But the aggregate value being lost if it can't be used as a result of that is significant, because it's a tiny amount each but multiplied by a billion.

And then what would happen in practice? Google says that in exchange for providing you with video hosting, you agree to let them use anything you upload to YouTube as training data. And then only huge conglomerates can do AI stuff because nobody else is in a position to get millions of people to agree to that term, but still none of the little guys are getting paid.

Restricting everyone but massive conglomerates from doing AI training in order to get them to maybe transfer some money exclusively to some other massive conglomerates is a bad trade off. It's even a bad trade off for the media companies who do not benefit from stamping out competitors to Google and the incumbent social media giants that already have them by the neck in terms of access to user traffic.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#225
post #213
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter’s profile indicates they work for a major AI development companies — where being against AI regulation aligns nicely with one’s paycheck. See also the the scare quotes around AI safety. We all have heard the dogma: regulation kills innovation. As if unbridled innovation is all that people and society care about. I wonder if the commenter above has ever worked in an industry where a safety culture matter…

I welcome any substantive commentary and disagreement, as always. I’m happy to stray outside the herd. HN needs more clearly articulated disagreement regarding AI regulation. I made my comment in response to what seemed like a simplistic, ideology-driven claim. Few wise hackers would make an analogous claim about a system they actually worked on. Thinking carefully about tech but phoning it in for other topics is a d…

FWIW I didn't downvote you. I don't work on AI personally, and while I have no way of proving it to you I certainly am not trying to shill for my employer.

My skepticism of AI safety is just because of skepticism of AI generally. These are amazing things, but I don't believe the technology is even a road to AGI. There's a reason it can give a chess move when prompted and explain all the rules and notation, but can't actually play chess: it's not in the training data. I simply think the hype and anxiety is unnecessary, is my issue. Now this is most definitely just my opinion and has nothing to do with that company I work for who I'd bet would disagree with me on all of this anyway. If I did believe this was a road to AGI I actually would be in favor of AI safety regulation.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#226
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an attorney, I'm trying to understand what you're getting at. His opinion, while interlocutory and not binding precedent, will be cited in future cases. And his wasn't the only one. In Kadrey v. Meta Platforms, Inc. , No. 23-cv-03417 (N.D. Cal. June 25, 2025) Judge Chhabria reached the same conclusion. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.41... In neither case has an appeal been sought.

I’m saying legally things aren’t clear cut at this point. If you’ve read Kadrey the judge says harm from competing with the output of authors would be problematic. Quite relevant for software developers suing about code generation but much harder for novelists to prove. However, the judge came to the opposite conclusion about using pirate websites to download the books in question. A new AI company that is expecting…

The judge didn’t come to an opposite legal conclusion about using pirated works. The judge concluded that the claim of using pirated works was unsubstantiated by the plaintiffs.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#227
post #225
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I welcome any substantive commentary and disagreement, as always. I’m happy to stray outside the herd. HN needs more clearly articulated disagreement regarding AI regulation. I made my comment in response to what seemed like a simplistic, ideology-driven claim. Few wise hackers would make an analogous claim about a system they actually worked on. Thinking carefully about tech but phoning it in for other topics is a d…

FWIW I didn't downvote you. I don't work on AI personally, and while I have no way of proving it to you I certainly am not trying to shill for my employer. My skepticism of AI safety is just because of skepticism of AI generally. These are amazing things, but I don't believe the technology is even a road to AGI. There's a reason it can give a chess move when prompted and explain all the rules and notation, but can't…

> There's a reason it can give a chess move when prompted and explain all the rules and notation, but can't actually play chess: it's not in the training data.

I don't understand how you can claim an LLM can't play chess. Just as one example, see: https://dynomight.net/chess/

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#228
post #225
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I welcome any substantive commentary and disagreement, as always. I’m happy to stray outside the herd. HN needs more clearly articulated disagreement regarding AI regulation. I made my comment in response to what seemed like a simplistic, ideology-driven claim. Few wise hackers would make an analogous claim about a system they actually worked on. Thinking carefully about tech but phoning it in for other topics is a d…

FWIW I didn't downvote you. I don't work on AI personally, and while I have no way of proving it to you I certainly am not trying to shill for my employer. My skepticism of AI safety is just because of skepticism of AI generally. These are amazing things, but I don't believe the technology is even a road to AGI. There's a reason it can give a chess move when prompted and explain all the rules and notation, but can't…

> My skepticism of AI safety is just because of skepticism of AI generally. These are amazing things, but I don't believe the technology is even a road to AGI.

Thanks for your response. I'm curious how to state your claim in a way that you would feel is accurate. Would you say "LLMs are not a road to AGI"?

I put ~zero weight on what an arbitrary person believes until they clarify their ideas, show me their model, and give me a prediction. So:

- Clarify: What exactly do you mean by "a road to"? Does this mean you are saying any future technology that uses LLMs (for training? for inference? something else) won't assist the development of AGI?

- Model: On what model(s) of how the world works do you make your claims?

- Prediction: If you are right, when will we know and what will be observe?

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#229
post #228
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I didn't downvote you. I don't work on AI personally, and while I have no way of proving it to you I certainly am not trying to shill for my employer. My skepticism of AI safety is just because of skepticism of AI generally. These are amazing things, but I don't believe the technology is even a road to AGI. There's a reason it can give a chess move when prompted and explain all the rules and notation, but can't…

> My skepticism of AI safety is just because of skepticism of AI generally. These are amazing things, but I don't believe the technology is even a road to AGI. Thanks for your response. I'm curious how to state your claim in a way that you would feel is accurate. Would you say "LLMs are not a road to AGI"? I put ~zero weight on what an arbitrary person believes until they clarify their ideas, show me their model, and…

Yes I'm talking about LLMs in particular. I'm in the stochastic parrot camp. Though I could be convinced humans are no more than stochastic parrots, in which case it does have a path for development of AGI.

If I'm right the breakthroughs will plateau even while applications of the technology continue to advance for the next several years.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#230
post #229
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My skepticism of AI safety is just because of skepticism of AI generally. These are amazing things, but I don't believe the technology is even a road to AGI. Thanks for your response. I'm curious how to state your claim in a way that you would feel is accurate. Would you say "LLMs are not a road to AGI"? I put ~zero weight on what an arbitrary person believes until they clarify their ideas, show me their model, and…

Yes I'm talking about LLMs in particular. I'm in the stochastic parrot camp. Though I could be convinced humans are no more than stochastic parrots, in which case it does have a path for development of AGI. If I'm right the breakthroughs will plateau even while applications of the technology continue to advance for the next several years.

> I'm in the stochastic parrot camp.

If you wouldn't mind doing me a favor?... For a few minutes, can we avoid this phrase? I don't know what people really mean by it.* Can you in plain English translate your view into sentence of theses form:

1. "Based on my understanding of LLMs, X1 and X2 are impossible."

2. "This leads to predictions such as P1 and P2."

3. "If I observed X3 or X4, it would challenge my current beliefs of LLMs."

* I've read the original stochastic parrots paper. In my view, the paper does not match how many people talk about it. Quite the opposite. It is likely many people name drop it but haven't read it carefully. I may have some misinterpretations, sure, but at least I'm actively seeking to question them.

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