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Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

masteringemacs.org

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Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#221
Here’s a reminder to everyone that you don’t have to spend 300$ to use a great mechanical keyboard.

Get a decent cheap one (ideally with switchable switches!) for 50, use it for a while, then figure out if you want better switches (20-30$ for the best ones).

If you want to make keyboards your hobby, sure, go nuts. But also consider using the keyboard, you know—as an input device to a computer, to build something great!

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree. I have almost never travelled with my Advantage2 or 360 when I still had them. But the Glove80 is so light that it’s easy to carry with me. The Advantage helped me a lot, but the Glove80 is the only keyboard I’ve truly loved using. The key well is insanely well-designed and even though the tenting is a bit of work to set up, it is really tailored to my preferred angle. MoErgo is also expanding the Choc ke…

I mentioned in my comment not liking how flimsy is felt. It is very light and that can be a plus but when I tried traveling with it with tenting setup, often the rods became loose, it formed an awkward shape so didn't fit in the carrying case they provided in the first place, would not sit well in my backpack, and often times I'm not sure why but keys would pop out. Resetting the tenting up everytime I travel/go some…

The tenting is my least favorite part of it. I just put objects under the keyboard to achieve tenting... I plan to use magsafe mounts instead to tent via pocket-size tripods (not actual tripod with shaft but a flat-style one I can't find online at the moment)

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to customise my car, my keyboard, even my fountain pens. Now, I just want to use them. I bought a car that's quick enough to pass lumbering trucks on tight roads (Tesla Model 3), I bought a pen that fits my hand and writes comfortably (Jinhao A10 EF), and I'd love a keyboard like the Matias Ergo Pro that I don't need to replace every year.

Not sure where you're getting the idea that you need to replace the keyboard every year. And you only really have to customize the keyboard for a short while until it covers your personal needs. It took me maybe 1 week total after getting used to the keyboard to set it up in a way that worked for me personally, and the keyboard has already lasted a year and still works like new, and looks like new, and many people ha…

  > Not sure where you're getting the idea that you need to replace the keyboard every year.
Because the Matias Ergo Pro really is the perfect keyboard, but for myself and many other users they break after a year. At $250 that becomes expensive real quick.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#224
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very confused about an 80% that allegedly moves ANY keys other than navigation, numpad, or f-keys. Any 65% will meet your requirements. As for <60%: use that neuroplasticity. Stave off dementia. You can do it.

You're right regarding 65%. The extra 15% is the arrow keys, Page up/down, home, end and delete keys. Found I often hit these one handed while the other hand is on the mouse, so a secondary layer that would require two hands to activate would be problematic. There's neuroplasticity and there's picking your battles. :-)

I had my own set of keys and combinations I wanted to hit while mousing, mostly space and cut/copy/paste. I just made sure I had those on a layer activated by my left thumb on my left hand.

My layout would not work for you since I put navigation on the right hand (close to where it would be normally), but do whatever works for you.

Personally I use navigation keys much more on my split because they're right under my fingers. Having VIM movement keys everywhere is quite nice.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#225
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just got a corne split keyboard from China for a fraction of the cost. The guy who runs the webshop seemed like a legit enthusiast. $40

Are we talking about a keyboard kit or pre-built? 40$ seems quite cheap even for china.

Pre-built, even.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#226
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the fancy keyboards all support layers, and one key ergonomic principle is to avoid unnecessary finger travel ;) Default layers on the Dygma Raise 2: https://dygma.com/pages/first-time-using-the-dygma-raise-2

Modifier keys are the main thing that’s causing me RSI in the first place.

Place modifiers on the thumb keys or - if you don't have any of those - use home row mods!

My ranking of measures from most effective to least effective:

1) Do everything you can to minimize workload of weak fingers (pinky & ring fingers). Just flipping control and caps lock is often not enough.

2) Split keyboard; halves roughly shoulder-width apart. Optimize for straight wrists both at rest and "in action". This usually results in zero tilting or slightly negative tilting.

3) Concave designs.

4) Tenting.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#227
I've had a Moonlander for a few years now and it's been incredible. The tenting and split layout completely fixed my hand and wrist pain.

I can't say I've had the same problems with quality as the author. The tenting can wobble if it's not tightened in a balanced position, but once it is, I haven't had it loosen. And the palm rests seem fine to me, but I've learned to put less pressure on my palms. The only issue I've had is the keyboard sliding away from you due to low friction when tented.

My board also came with Cherry MX Browns, which used for a couple of years. I recently switched to low profile key caps and Akko switches for a nicer tactile feel. With tenting, I felt like the cap height and travel distance was too large.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#228
I bought the Moonlander a year ago, and I completely regret it for the reason you mention: the horrible palm rest. It's wobbly, and when I contacted them, they told me that in the "ideal setup", my wrists aren't support to rest on them. Palm rests where you can't rest your palms.

I'm really frustrated, because I love everything else from this keyboard. But those wobbles really do make it unusable.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#229
I have a Kinesis Freestyle Pro that I sort of like. Although, I think tenting and split is honestly 99% of the value here, I don’t really get the whole mechanical keyboard click clacky thing. I actually prefer the key pressing experience of something like an Apple Magic Keyboard, nice and crisp and immediate. But, tenting is not optional as far as I’m concerned, it is mandatory.

Eventually the little rubbery feet fell off the tenting attachment. In a moment of frustration I wrapped the tenting attachment in tennis racket overgrip, which actually drastically improves the feeling of the thing IMO, it really keeps the keyboard in place and removes a lot of the creaky noises from the plastic tenting kits.

It looks like Moonlander tenting kits tend to be a bit more aggressive than what you get with Kinesis, though, so maybe it doesn’t apply.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#230
I've had a Moonlander for a couple years, and an ErgoDox Ez for 3-4 years before that, and, honestly, I'm looking to move to something else.

My biggest issue seems to be that I'm switching between a Macbook and the Moonlander all the time, and the Moonlander I just find myself making too many dumb typos on. In particular, I think the ortholinear layout isn't doing me any favors, and the missing extra keys on the right (particularly the missing "+" key) I really struggle with.

I do love the thumb clusters, but as the article above says, the red button I never use.

The real star of the show is the programmable firmware. I have a lot of custom mappings on my main layer that I really love, with dual use keys being a big one (z and / are control if held for example). The Framework 16 keyboard with QMK firmware sounds really, really good to me.

Unfortunately, my next keyboard doesn't seem to exist: Low profile mechanical switches, QMK or similar firmware, split, thumb clusters, staggered layout, enough keys to have []\ on the right. The low profile seems to be the killer there.

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