US cities pay too much for buses • Hacker News Board

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#221

Post by lazyasciiart » Fri, Sep 26, 2025, 7:33 PM UTC

cenamus wrote: post #206

SpicyUme wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But a bus isn't just a bus, there are differences in what is needed in different cities. Some need heat, some need AC, some need both. In Utah there are buses that go up the canyons and they have gearboxes focused on climbing steep hills, while a bus in the valley might never need that ratio and can be optimized for efficiency on the flats. Seattle has buses with electric trolley lines above, and buses that were desi…

But they all basically come with AC and heating? At least in basically any semi-modern bus I've ever been in in Europe. No matter if it's -20 or +35 celsius, as long as they turn the AC actually on it's tolerable. And we also have some mountains here, so there's some buses for that (still stock from the factory)

No, they certainly don’t all come with AC and heat.

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#222

Post by pessimizer » Fri, Sep 26, 2025, 7:35 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #139

bluGill wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those should be needed. Get more people riding and they take care of security. wheelchairs are hard - but the driver strapping them in is robbing everyone else of their valuable time so we need a better soultion anyway

Every bus in Copenhagen has a button next to the door to lower the wheelchair ramp, but I have never seen anyone use it. I've never seen a wheelchair on a bus. The metro and suburban trains have level boarding (the platform is at exactly the same level as the floor of the train so it's very easy for a wheelchair user to wheel themselves in). I've still only seen wheelchairs users on these trains once or twice. I susp…

Wheelchairs, sometimes multiple, are on Chicago buses all the time. Also rolling grocery trolleys, walkers (especially for dialysis patients where they have a medical functions) and also old people whose legs don't work so good and need the bus lowered.

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#223

Post by lazyasciiart » Fri, Sep 26, 2025, 7:35 PM UTC

logifail wrote: post #145

bluGill wrote: post #63

Don't be fooled, paying less won't help much since the cost of a bus is a small part of the costs of running a bus route. about half your costs are the bus driver. The most expensive bus is still only 1/3rd of your hourly cost of running the bus. If a more expensive bus is more reliable that could more than make up for a more expensive bus (I don't have any numbers to do math on though). Half the costs of running a b…

> about half your costs are the bus driver (Genuine question) is this true around the globe, or is that US-specific? We were in Portugal over the summer and travelled with Flixbus (for the first time ever) to get from Porto to Lisbon. Were impressed by the high-quality service and great value for money. Wonder how much the driver makes per hour?

Those services are pretty different to local bus routes - people book ahead, tickets aren’t covered by student passes or subsidized by employers, people care a lot more about comfort and are much less likely to be daily riders, etc.

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#224

Post by frollogaston » Fri, Sep 26, 2025, 7:36 PM UTC

savanaly wrote: post #92

xnx wrote: post #39

Ultimately due to a lack of transit competition. Municipal transit will be bloated and inefficient on every level because no amount of failure will put them out of business. Indeed, most agencies' main goal is to increase budget (any increase in service or customer satisfaction is incidental) because more budget equals bigger projects and more staff which is more prestigious and higher paying.

I'm with you at heart, but experience says government owned transit works just fine and even great in other countries. What's their secret sauce?

I'm guessing that unlike here, some of those places need buses, and they simply can't afford any waste.

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#225

Post by closeparen » Fri, Sep 26, 2025, 7:37 PM UTC

ecshafer wrote: post #133

I think that the authors solution, outsourcing production is not quite right, they gloss over other issues. >In a large country like the US, some variation in bus design is inevitable due to differences in conditions like weather and topography. But Silverberg said that many customizations are cosmetic, reflecting agency preferences or color schemes but not affecting vehicle performance. This is kind of absurd, I hav…

San Francisco continues to use trolleybuses (powered by overhead wires) after the most of the country has moved onto hybrid and battery-electric vehicles because the energy demands from climbing hills are beyond at least the earlier generations of batteries.

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#226

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 26, 2025, 7:37 PM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #214

wat10000 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And since the route is fixed, maybe we could install guides rather than needing a complicated steering mechanism. Then replace inefficient tires with much more efficient metal wheels rolling on the guides....

And with that, we can scale it up and have multiple chains of these buses used for mass transport. Heck, in some fantasy land we can really speed up the bus and have it trek across the the continent in a few hours!

[deleted]

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#227

Post by kuschku » Fri, Sep 26, 2025, 7:37 PM UTC

baggy_trough wrote: post #215

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they're empty, but it's also a catch 22 because it takes urbanization, frequent bus services, and a lot of time for people to adjust to it. Anyone who spent enough time in Europe can tell you about how efficient, convenient, and efficient a bus network can get. Also, most people go to work, so buses tend to be very busy in the morning and at shift changes etc. It's not magic though, there are a lot of places whe…

We solved that several generations ago with cars.

Considering the amount of traffic jams, wasted space due to parking lots, and lost third places, I'd argue "solved" isn't exactly accurate.

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#228

Post by treis » Fri, Sep 26, 2025, 7:38 PM UTC

milesvp wrote: post #190

citizenpaul wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the contract stuff is too muddled to even consider debating online. I'd start with one HUGE obvious waste. Why don't the buses anywhere have some sort of uber style pickup. My point. I see countless buses running empty all the time through the day where I live outside of busy hours. It is so depressing to watch 3 empty busses pull up to an empty stop to not pick anyone up then do it again and again and again.. I…

I've thought about this a lot, and wonder if the last mile problem could be lessened with an uber style pickup you suggest. I have a civil engineer relative who follows this stuff better than I do, and he says all the pilot programs he's seen (in the US) tend to be wildly unprofitable. That said, I think that some program like this is essential to bootstrapping a really good transit system. The last mile problem real…

Most bus systems in the US are wildly unprofitable and quite costly. My local system is just under $10 per unlinked trip (i.e. get one on bus). That makes getting from point A to point B not much cheaper to provide than Uber because it will usually involve a transfer.

Everyone would be better off in an Uber type system but there's no appetite or budget to subsidize rides at the level people would use it

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#229

Post by cyanydeez » Fri, Sep 26, 2025, 7:38 PM UTC

RobKohr wrote: post #202

"Federal funding typically covers 80% of bus purchases, with agencies responsible for the remainder." Well, there is your answer. The one making the purchase isn't the one primarily paying for the purchase. This makes them less sensitive to pricing. Kinda like how expensive healthcare is since it is paid for by insurance. Or how you don't care how much you put on your plate or what you choose to eat at an all you can…

Or how government bailouts go to corporations

Re: US cities pay too much for buses

#230

Post by SoftTalker » Fri, Sep 26, 2025, 7:38 PM UTC

wat10000 wrote: post #199

esafak wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hearing you say we should have self-driving buses... which is feasible since their route is fixed.

And since the route is fixed, maybe we could install guides rather than needing a complicated steering mechanism. Then replace inefficient tires with much more efficient metal wheels rolling on the guides....

And then we need to make a change to the route.... oops.