Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

thehill.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 571 posts

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#221

Post by echelon »

kccqzy wrote: post #206
1024core wrote: post #202

A lot of these problems could be solved if H1-B's were given out in order of salary (I think there's such a proposal going around recently). And by that I mean: something like a Dutch auction. Give H1-Bs to the top 85K paying jobs (maybe normalized to SoL in the region, I'm sure the BLS has some idea on how to do it). The lure of H1-Bs is the money savings, and the fact that if you're on an H1-B, you're practically a…

The lure of H-1B is not really the money savings. Go look at the graduating class of computer science students at large universities. A large fraction are international students. Universities thrive on them since they pay the most tuition and are generally not allowed any financial aid. Companies want to hire them in addition to U.S. citizens. That's it. No Silicon Valley company that I know of pays H-1B and citizens…

> Voluntary job switches are just as easy as U.S. citizens.

Then why did my wife's friends that lost their H-1B jobs have to leave America?

American citizens don't face deportation with job loss.

Also, as a US citizen, I'm free to quit my job anytime I want. If I don't like putting up with my job because of some bullshit my employer pulls, I can easily leave. That is absolutely not the case for sponsored workers.

H-1B workers are stressed out and paranoid about their employment. They'll put up with far more, for far longer, with less compensation.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#222

Post by missingcolours »

legitster wrote: post #172

So I was at a company that did this a lot - it was much less nefarious than on the surface. It was usually related to them recruiting a certain specialist or acquiring a team at another company. But the only way to get these people visas was to post the jobs publicly and hide them as much as possible. They did this by the hundreds, and it wasn't really a cost saving measure - if you are trying to get anybody in parti…

As I understand it, the issue is that the official pathway to hire a permanent foreign worker (PERM status) is very long (18 months+), and most companies don't want to start a process in hopes of hiring someone in a year or more. H1B offers a shortcut, where they can be brought in on a temporary permit, then apply for PERM status. But PERM status requires a bona fide search for American workers; using the H1B shortcut legally would require an awkward job search where you already have an employee in the role, and if an applicant is found the current employee not only loses their job but has to literally leave the country. So instead of getting into that awkward situation, employers are faking the "bona fide search" requirement and trying to hand the green card status directly to the H1B even when Americans are available that could do that job.

That said... there is still the question of why companies choose to go down this road instead of simply hiring Americans. We can speculate about their intentions (cost saving via lower wages, employees willing to work more hours and under worse conditions, racism, etc) but it's unlikely that they're violating federal law just for fun. This is a lot of hoops to jump through and risk to take on without a compelling reason to do so.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#223

Post by decimalenough »

gp90 wrote: post #109
throwmeaway222 wrote: post #9

[flagged]

> It's extremely racist I'm not sure if the motive behind such behavior is racism. Instead, I think it's more likely the power play. That is, they would pick the population that is the easiest to command and to push them up the corporate ladder.

Yup. You see this when any org hires a top exec externally: they bring their trusted lieutenants/golf buddies and push out the old brass, and then this repeats down the chain when these hires do the same.

Unsurprisingly, an Indian exec's trusted lieutenants and golf buddies will also be Indian, likely from the same university, caste, etc. They will not be hiring random people just because they happen to be Indian; if anything, there's been plenty of lawsuits over Indians of the "wrong" caste, language group etc getting pushed out.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#225

Post by crazygringo »

gp90 wrote: post #186
pclmulqdq wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How do we draw the line between whatever -ism and Bayesian inferences? You are seasoned manager for years, you found that your fellow countrymen are much more likely to follow your leadership style than any other group of different cultural background. Let's say it's a fact that you identified through years of trial and error. Based on this fact, you decide to hire only certain groups. How is this racism? How is this…

> you found that your fellow countrymen are much more likely to follow your leadership style than any other group of different cultural background

Two points.

First: a good, seasoned manager adapts their leadership style to their employees. So the premise is a bit backwards.

But second, let's suppose we use something more valid like "ability to follow instructions". And suppose there are real differences in groups. You still don't stereotype on groups, because lower-performing groups still have high-performing members. So you have your interview examine the actual skill you need on an individual basis. You don't make assumptions based on group membership.

Now, for practical reasons candidates need to be reduced to a reasonable number to interview. That should be done according to personal accomplishments and experience, not groups.

The college you went to is tricky. Only hiring from a select group is not very defensible mainly because it's a bad signal. It reflects mostly your high school test scores and grades, which was years ago. On the other hand, some colleges teach in certain departments better or worse, your grades might matter and depend on the college, etc. So you need to calibrate for a bunch of achievement-based signals where the college name can matter, rather than whitelist only certain colleges.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#227

Post by SilverElfin »

anon291 wrote: post #191
SilverElfin wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means since they aren’t originally “Indian” but are colonizers of India who arrived through invasion.

So are the brahmins. The indigenous religions of India are basically gone. Only remembered in various folklore.

Where can I read more about this? That the indigenous are gone?

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#228

Post by tomhow »

mirrorsaurus wrote: post #188
buckle8017 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing this article didn't mention and the author likely doesn't know is that there's a guide going around instructing people on how to apply for H1B jobs on forums like 4chan.

[flagged]

You can't comment like this on Hacker News. Please avoid flamebait and slurs against groups of people. The guidelines make it clear we expect much better than this here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#229

Post by fijiaarone »

nostrademons wrote: post #27
throwmeaway222 wrote: post #9

[flagged]

I've noticed this as well, but see it mostly as "A players hire other A players, B players hire C players". The top tier of Indian execs/management that I've met will hire diverse teams, just like the top tier of every other ethnicity will as well. There's simply not enough people at the top to put a racial/ethnic/caste filter on it. But then once you get down to the second tier, people will happily hire people like…

That’s extremely racist to assume that Indian execs are all D tier or worse.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#230

Post by decimalenough »

SilverElfin wrote: post #119
zdragnar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been awhile since I've seen it, but there was a very brief and small wave of articles perhaps a few years back claiming a lot of Indians in the US were still facing caste-based discrimination (by skin color, name or something else, I'm not sure) by other Indian managers and execs.

[flagged]

Does caste discrimination still exist in India?

If yes, what leads you to believe that all first gen immigrants from India to the US magically stop doing it?

Post reply on HN