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Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

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Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#221

Post by _1tem »

rprend wrote: post #216
_1tem wrote: post #211

Something weird happens whenever someone tries to disrupt the Visa/Mastercard mob. Even in this post, the founders alluded to being "not well connected enough". Also look at how Plaid's acquisition by Visa was cancelled by the DOJ on antitrust claims but then Plaid dropped its plans to build a pay-by-bank network. Makes no sense when compared to the lawsuits filed and dismissed in 2024 and recently July 2025 claiming…

I appreciate you looking out for my well being, but really there was nothing shady here. We weren’t forced out by a Visa mob or something like that. I actually wish that were the case, because that would mean that we were growing! We just aren’t well connected enough to convince established merchants to switch over to a startup’s payment network, especially since the value to them is dubious. But it’s not like there…

Thanks for the clarification in your particular case. No offence, but you were then probably not big enough to matter. There is plenty evidence of shadowy forces shutting down payment systems, however, just look at Marc Andreessen's public statements about crypto founders he invested in getting debanked.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#222

Post by fragmede »

camillomiller wrote: post #72
Tor3 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incentive for merchants to accept cards for payment is that it'll increase number of sales. And it does. In principle this should even out over all sales.. but cards do make it easier for consumers do purchase stuff, and I'm absolutely sure that I personally spend money way easier with a card than without (not that I spend more than I make, mind). The total number of sales go up. I haven't used cash in my home co…

One thing to consider: cards solve the issue of employees stealing, which is surprisingly common from what I’ve heard especially in businesses with high workers turnover, such as seasonal bars and restaurants.

They also solve the problem of someone coming into the store with a gun and robbing the place for the cash in the register. And for the government, they solve the problem of stores not paying sales tax.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#223

Post by ta12653421 »

gabll wrote: post #163
closewith wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pix, UPI, etc have definitively shown that Governments are the best players to disrupt the Visa/Mastercard duopoly.

I agree, and I hope initiatives like the Digital Euro [0] will have success soon. [0] https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.ht...

I do not think that it will fix these issues, but I gurantee you that in this present box some additional things will be brought to you ;-)

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#224

Post by ta12653421 »

vidarh wrote: post #95
memco wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how prevalent this is now, but a few years back I was seeing a lot of "cash price" advertised for stuff that was lower by whatever the merchant didn't have to pay in fees so sometimes cash may not be subsidizing the credit industry.

Handling cash costs money too. Sometimes more than handling cards. But a proportion of customers who like cash are very strongly convinced they are "subsidising" card payments, and might be attracted by pricing like that, so maybe it still ends up being a net gain.

From a percentage perspectice, handling huge amounts of cash should be far more expensive; I know one of the operators over here in my country: If you are a supermarket chain and have three locations in one large street, they charge you for every stop a minimum fee + additional handling costs.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#225

Post by fsflover »

camillomiller wrote: post #200
fsflover wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A business mode that relies on duopoly is broken and must be regulated.

I literally said it must be regulated. Depends what you mean by broken: for the business owners it’s not broken. For the users? Sure, but they are not stakeholders in the business. They are stakeholders in the society that an excessively successful business model is affecting negatively, hence: regulation.

So we agree.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#226

Post by WorldPeas »

codedokode wrote: post #183

What I need is not lower fee cards, but anonymous pre-paid debit cards that do not allow linking purchases to a person and profiling people. Until that appears, I will use cash only.

does privacy-dot-com not do this? (this is a genuine question)

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#227

Post by WorldPeas »

ttoinou wrote: post #121
soared wrote: post #2

Super interesting read! I work in payments for context and see tons of different payment methods every day. People tend to find a payment method they like, and really only ever use that one method. It’s very hard to get someone to switch - even if an alternative is better. It’s just so ingrained to swipe that same card, click the same autofill button, etc. Digital wallets did somehow over come this, and those would b…

The best players to disrupt Visa Mastercard duopoly would rather be a consortium of payment processors such as Shopify / Stripe / Google Pay / Apple Pay and banks taking in sandwhich Visa and Mastercard (where the money is stored, where the money is spent)

Would not the best stakeholder to have on your side be companies like clover or toast, aside from ecommerce? I think the most concrete foothold one could have is brick-and-mortar POS acceptance, and now that places don't have to run their own registers this is probably easier than ever to push out to the masses.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#228

Post by ac29 »

vidarh wrote: post #137
Hunpeter wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with little financial knowledge, I'm curious why that is the case and how those estimates are calculated. I've seen stores offering a discount on cash payments, citing card-related fees as the reason.

Fraud done by shop owners is one reason why they might still offer a discount, but also a lot of the time I simply think stores don't actually realise how much it is costing them. E.g. they might not include staff time and incidental costs around cash transactions that aren't obvious because they're not linked to the individual transactions, such as reconciliation, time spent transporting the cash, costs of depositin…

> they might not include staff time and incidental costs around cash transactions that aren't obvious because they're not linked to the individual transactions, such as reconciliation, time spent transporting the cash, costs of depositing the cash, insurance to cover storage of cash.

Yep. I worked as a supervisor in retail for a number of years and here's a list of cash handling costs that dont exist with card payments:

Making change on each transaction

Counting cash drawers in and out for each employee shift

Preparing daily bank deposits

Going to the bank to make deposits and get new change

Theft (by employees, external theft wasnt a problem for us)

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#229

Post by tossit444 »

WorldPeas wrote: post #226
codedokode wrote: post #183

What I need is not lower fee cards, but anonymous pre-paid debit cards that do not allow linking purchases to a person and profiling people. Until that appears, I will use cash only.

does privacy-dot-com not do this? (this is a genuine question)

The cards they give are mostly anonymous, but you still need to give privacy.com your ID, credit card, etc.

Re: Zenobia Pay – A mission to build an alternative to high-fee card networks

#230

Post by FredPret »

Let me say first of all that the card networks do great work enabling commerce by being lightning-fast and generally secure.

I can securely complete transactions and subscriptions with ~anyone on the planet in mere seconds.

But holy cow do they have large margins. 40-50%!

The profit growth charts on these two are a sight to behold.

http://valustox.com/MA

http://valustox.com/V

The situation is simply begging for disruption.

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