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EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

cointelegraph.com

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Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#221

Post by FinnKuhn »

okucu wrote: post #189
FinnKuhn wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What has anything I said to do with the European parliament? This whole thread is about EU politics. > Greens are even further right than cdu/csu who have the same policies in 99% of cases as libs Trying to paint the greens as further right than CDU/CSU is just plain wrong by any measure. The greens are a green/social liberal party while the CDU/CSU are conservative center-right party. None of their politicians wou…

The one I responded to was talking about something else. You trust what the parties are saying rather than what they're actually doing? Is this a joke? The biggest warmongering party the greens are supposed to be left? This is tagesschau levels of propaganda. You are talking about greens, the party that wants to deport everyone who criticizes Israel, sues everyone who insults them, and they literally warned against a…

Your comments are so far removed from reality I won't even respond to them as it is not possible to do so.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#222

Post by okucu »

FinnKuhn wrote: post #221
okucu wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I responded to was talking about something else. You trust what the parties are saying rather than what they're actually doing? Is this a joke? The biggest warmongering party the greens are supposed to be left? This is tagesschau levels of propaganda. You are talking about greens, the party that wants to deport everyone who criticizes Israel, sues everyone who insults them, and they literally warned against a…

Your comments are so far removed from reality I won't even respond to them as it is not possible to do so.

Keep reading Tagesschau. Remember, everyone who's against war is right wing and pro war and pro genocide is the new left position. All those germans who talk about what they "would have done" in nazi germany. If you look at germans today the answer is clear. Look away or better yet help the war effort.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#224

Post by emptysongglass »

lII1lIlI11ll wrote: post #172
emptysongglass wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Danes are very proud of Denmark. It's a tiny country. There's a sense that we need to protect this tiny state from criticism because it's taken care of us. We've given the world Lego, Hans Christian Andersen, and we rank in the top two happiest countries in the world according to terrible measurements. So now we're the baddies, what do we do? We don't mention it. Ignorance is bliss.

Okay, but what justification do they provide for such behavior?

Various: rejection due to irrelevance and not provoking substantive debate.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#225

Post by WhyNotHugo »

koonsolo wrote: post #156
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of weakening encryption, the plan seeks to implement client-side scanning, meaning software embedded in users’ devices that inspects content before it is encrypted. And there's really no way to enforce this unless you mandate locked-down devices with attestation. Then again, that's likely the long-term plan here.

You think this is some genius scheme? These politicians have no clue what encryption, client-side scanning, embedded software, and how these would all work together to scan messages means.

> These politicians have no clue what encryption, client-side scanning, […]

I agree. Puppets can’t fathom what the puppeteer envisions.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#226

Post by wqaatwt »

izacus wrote: post #169
wqaatwt wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way exactly is it bullshit? For better or for worse the core institution or decision making processes were never designed to be democratic in any meaningful way.

Because it is bullshit without any basis and doesn't fit the reality which is modelled after most democracies on the planet. And no, I'm not going to play the game where you spew out whatever comes to mind and then I do work to debunk your claims. Do the legwork and prove your BS.

> Do the legwork and prove your BS.

Seems like a bizarre waste of time considering that that you already made up your mind to such an extent that you ate not even willing to explain what are you even trying to say.

> and doesn't fit the reality which is modelled after most democracies on the planet

Well yes, because the EU is rather unique compared to pretty much any post 1800s democracy.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#227

Post by hsuduebc2 »

nickslaughter02 wrote: post #213
hsuduebc2 wrote: post #46

Even though it goes against all my beliefs and values, I still see it primarily as a desperate attempt to gain at least some means of control over encrypted tools — which are, in fact, constantly used for criminal activity. The endlessly recycled “think of the children” argument is laughably pathetic. I don't understand why they don't present the real and much more reasonable justifications — such as terrorism in Eur…

> the spread of propaganda, which is a genuine issue here Now we are policing speech?

Because I perceive someone spreading lies with a clear malicious intent as a problem I'm policing a speech? Ok.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#228

Post by raxxorraxor »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #209
raxxorraxor wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, national governments are closer to the voting population and can be held accountable more effectively. That just isn't possible for EU institutions, parliament or not. The level of indirection matters.

And would you be in favour of dissolving the national governments in favour of devolving power to even more local governments that are closer to their populations and even held even more effectively accountable? What's the ideal level of "indirection?" Where do you draw the line/how do you strike balance? And I'm curious if you have an idea of an alternative for the regular coordination efforts that would be needed f…

The EU theoretically defines the goal itself in its statutes about subsidiarity.

Your argument doesn't make sense, you cannot just use abstraction to justify building new layers of governance.

I could give you an arbitrary line and say a common language would be the point. It is sensible as well because nobody in the Netherlands knows any politician from Spain and vice versa. On a national level this is not as pronounced.

I don't need coordination efforts about scanning encrypted messages if that is your question.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#229

Post by nickslaughter02 »

hsuduebc2 wrote: post #227
nickslaughter02 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the spread of propaganda, which is a genuine issue here Now we are policing speech?

Because I perceive someone spreading lies with a clear malicious intent as a problem I'm policing a speech? Ok.

Lies according to whom? Are you the judge? You fight lies by presenting clear evidence to the contrary, not by censorship.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#230

Post by nickslaughter02 »

evoseven wrote: post #18
superkuh wrote: post #5

Seems like all regions of the world all falling into their own particular flavors of authoritarian fascism. EU's better than most but this is absolutely draconian. We all know this won't actually be feasible to implement but the end result of of this infeasibility will be a status quo where everyone is guilty of a crime by default when needed.

Fascism is an ideology very different from the controlled liberal-capitalism of the EU. There is absolutely no push to reduce individualism so it's very wrong to use "fascism".

Policing what you can or cannot send in private even if illegal is not reducing individualism?
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