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It's rude to show AI output to people

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Re: It's rude to show AI output to people

#221

Post by johnnyanmac »

MattGaiser wrote: post #86
gharper wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the conversational equivalent of “Let me google that for you”.

I think the issue is that about half the conversations in my life really shouldn't happen. They should have Googled it or asked an AI about it, as that is how I would solve the same problem. It wouldn't surprise me if "let me Google that for you" is an unstated part of many conversations.

The big issue here is that a lot of company IP is proprietary. You can't Google 90% of it. And internal documentation has never been particularlly good, in my experience. It's a great leverage point to prevent people from saying "just google it" if I'm dealing with abrasive people, at least.

Re: It's rude to show AI output to people

#222

Post by johnnyanmac »

drewbug01 wrote: post #164
lukevp wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than close or ignore PRs, you should start a dialogue with them. Teach them that the AI is not a person, and if they contribute buggy or low quality code, it’s their responsibility, not the AIs, and ultimately their job on the line. Another perspective I’ve found to resonate with people is to remind them — if you’re not reviewing the code or passing it through any type of human reasoning to determine its fit t…

> Rather than close or ignore PRs, you should start a dialogue with them. Teach them that the AI is not a person, and if they contribute buggy or low quality code, it’s their responsibility, not the AIs, and ultimately their job on the line. I’m willing to mentor folks, and help them grow. But what you’re describing sounds so exhausting , and it’s so much worse than what “mentorship” meant just a few short years ago.…

>I have to now teach people basic respect and empathy at work? Are we serious?

Given that we (or at least, much of this community) seem to disagree with this article, that does indeed seem to be the case. "It's just a tool" "it's elitist to reject AI generated output". The younger generations learn from these behaviors too.

Re: It's rude to show AI output to people

#223

Post by johnnyanmac »

accrual wrote: post #106
gigatree wrote: post #31

Someone telling you about a conversation they had with ChatGPT is the new telling someone about your dream last night (which sucks because I’ve had a lot of conversations I wanna share lol).

I think it's different to talk about a conversation with AI versus just passing the AI output to someone directly. The former is like "hey, I had this experience, here's what it was about, what I learned and how it affected me" which is a very human experience and totally valid to share. The latter is like "I created some input, here's the output, now I want you reflect and/or act on it". For example I've used Claude…

Yeah. We can't share dreams, but the equivalent would be if we made our subject sit down and put on a video of our dreams. it went from this potential 2 way conversation to essentially giving one person homework to review before commenting to the other person.

Re: It's rude to show AI output to people

#224

Post by johnnyanmac »

jerlam wrote: post #179
chang1 wrote: post #139

I get annoyed when I ask someone a question (work related or not) and they don't know the answer, they will then proceed to tell a prompt for ChatGPT in a stream of consciousness sort of way. Then I get even more annoyed when they decide to actually use their own prompt, and then read back to me the answer. I would much prefer the answer "I don't know".

It seems there are people deeply afraid of admitting they don't know something, despite the fact that not knowing things is the default. But giving the wrong answer is always worse.

Huge cultural issue in the US. We shame ignorance and don't believe in redemption. If you don't know even once, you must be a weak person. You don't want to waste your time with weaklings.

But the macho approach? They are bold, they are someone you want to follow. They do the thinking. Even if you walk off a cliff, you feel that person was a good leader. If you are assertive, you must be strong, after all. "Strong people" never get punished for failure, it's just "the cost of doing business"; time to move to the next business.

Re: It's rude to show AI output to people

#225

Post by johnnyanmac »

lvl155 wrote: post #38

While I understand this sentiment, some people simply suck at writing nice emails or have a major communication issue. It’s also not bad to run your important emails through multiple edits via AI.

>It’s also not bad to run your important emails through multiple edits via AI.

The issue is that we both know 99% of output are not the result of this. AI is used to cut corners, not to cross your T's and dot your I's. It's similar to how having the answer banks for a textbook is a great tool to self-correct and reinforce correct learning. In reality these banks aren't sold publicly because most students will use it to cheat.

And I'm not even saying this in a shameful way per se; high schoolers are under so much pressure, used to be given hours of homework on top of 7+ hours of instruction, and in some regards the content is barely applicable to long term goals past keeping their GPA up. The temptation to cheat is enormous at that stage.

----

Not so much for 30 year old me who wants to refresh themselves on calculus concepts for an interview. There also really shouldn't be any huge pressure to "cheat" your co-workers either (there sometimes is, though).

Re: It's rude to show AI output to people

#226

Post by johnnyanmac »

stefan_ wrote: post #125
GPerson wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like there are potential privacy issues involved in sharing important emails with these companies, especially if you are sharing what the other person sent as well.

Ha, did you see the outrage from people when they realized that them sharing their deepest secrets & company information with ChatGPT was just another business record to OpenAI that is total fair game in any sort of civil suit discovery? You would think some evil force just smothered every little childs pet bunny. Tell people there are 10000 license plate scanners tracking their every move across the US and you get a…

I'm not surprised the layman doesn't understand how and where their data goes. It's a bit of a let down members in HN seemed surprised by this practice after some 20 years of tech awareness. Many of the community here probably worked in those very databases storing such data.

Re: It's rude to show AI output to people

#227

Post by johnnyanmac »

skeledrew wrote: post #75

Not seeing a problem here as long as the one showing the output has reviewed it themselves before showing, and made the decision to show based on that review. That's what we should be advocating for. So far what I'm seeing is people slamming others or ignoring automatically on even the vague suspicion that something has been generated. Just the other day I witnessed in a chat someone commenting that another (who prev…

> the one showing the output has reviewed it themselves before showing

Now let's really asks ourselves how this works out in reality. Cut corners. People using LLM's are not using it to enhance their conversation; they are using it to get it over with.

It also doesn't help that yes, AI generated text tends to be overly verbose. Saying a lot of nothing. There are times where that formality is needed, but not in some casual work conversations. Just get to the point.

Re: It's rude to show AI output to people

#228

Post by johnnyanmac »

lxgr wrote: post #217
johnnyanmac wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we have the tech doesn't mean we are forced to use it. we still have social cues and ettiquite shaping what is and isn't appropriate. In this case, presenting arguments you yourself do not even understand is dishonest, for multiple reasons. And I thought we went past the "thesaurus era" of communication where we just proliferate a comment with uncommon words to sound smarter.

> In this case, presenting arguments you yourself do not even understand is dishonest, for multiple reasons. I fully agree. However, the original comment was about helping people express an idea in a language they're not proficient in, which seems very different. > And I thought we went past the "thesaurus era" of communication where we just proliferate a comment with uncommon words to sound smarter. I wish. Until we…

>about helping people express an idea in a language they're not proficient in, which seems very different.

Yes, but I see it as a rare case. Also, consider tha mindset of someone learning a language:

You probably often hear "I'm sorry about my grammar, I'm not very good at English" and their communication is better than half your native peers. They are putting a lot more effort into trying to communicate while the natives take it for granted. That effort shows.

So in the context of an LLM: if they are using it to assist with their communication, they also tend to take more time to look at and properly tweak the output instead of posting it wholesale, at least without the sloppy queries that were not part of the actual output. That effort is why I'm more lenient to those situations.

Re: It's rude to show AI output to people

#229

Post by mancerayder »

stevekemp wrote: post #131
vouaobrasil wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best thing you can do is quit LinkedIn. I deleted my account immediately once I first noticed AI-generated content there.

I guess that makes sense, unless you're single. LinkedIn is the new tinder.

Let's expound some more on this. There's a parallel between people feeling forced to use online dating (mostly owned by one corporate entity) despite hating it, and being forced to use LinkedIn when you're in a state of paycheck-unattached or even just paycheck-curious.

Re: It's rude to show AI output to people

#230

Post by threatofrain »

pyman wrote: post #126
aidos wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don’t think they’re the same thing. Email or letter, the words are yours while an LLM output isn’t.

Initially, it had the same effect on people until they got used to it. In the near future, whether the text is yours or not won't matter. What will matter is the message or idea you're communicating. Just like today, it doesn't matter if the code is yours, only the product you're shipping and problem it's solving.

I think just looking at information transfer misses the picture. What's going to happen is that my Siri is going to talk to your Cortana, and that our digital secretaries will either think we're fit to meet or we're not. Like real secretaries do.

You largely won't know such conversations are happening.

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