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How I Use Kagi

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Re: How I Use Kagi

#221

Post by dcow »

jszymborski wrote: post #195
freediver wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi founder here. I notice you bring this up consistently in Kagi discussions. A search engine's job is to deliver the best possible results. We evaluate API sources on search quality, not geopolitics. Yandex represents 2% of our costs but contributes meaningfully to search quality - removing it would harm all users while having minimal economic impact. We've used their API since 2019 and evaluate all sources purely…

Would you ever consider switching out Yandex for something like the Brave Search API or Bing (if they aren't already part of the mix)? While I do understand your position, it's important to understand including Yandex in your index doesn't mean that politics aren't influencing your results; it's not an apolitical position.

By that definition precisely noting is apolitical. And that’s really the point, isn‘t it? Kagi values search quality over virtue signaling in line with whichever way the wind is blowing.

Also, do Kagi’s Russian users deserve to be punished because of their leader’s actions? Is that virtuous?

Re: How I Use Kagi

#222

Post by autumn-antlers »

jszymborski wrote: post #195
freediver wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi founder here. I notice you bring this up consistently in Kagi discussions. A search engine's job is to deliver the best possible results. We evaluate API sources on search quality, not geopolitics. Yandex represents 2% of our costs but contributes meaningfully to search quality - removing it would harm all users while having minimal economic impact. We've used their API since 2019 and evaluate all sources purely…

Would you ever consider switching out Yandex for something like the Brave Search API or Bing (if they aren't already part of the mix)? While I do understand your position, it's important to understand including Yandex in your index doesn't mean that politics aren't influencing your results; it's not an apolitical position.

Brave is part of the mix, and that's also the reason I don't use Kagi myself.

Re: How I Use Kagi

#223

Post by LexiMax »

jorvi wrote: post #55
J_McQuade wrote: post #4

I always feel really grotty about evangelising for products, but I switched to Kagi about six months ago and it really is a better experience. In almost all cases, the search results are as good as or better than Google, and I don't have to scroll through an increasing number of misleading ads to see them. I'm a happy customer. When I first switched, I would often click the button to run the search on google for quer…

> I always feel really grotty about evangelising for products You shouldn't. Word-of-mouth should be the primary way people discover products. In ye olden days, a region's best bakery or blacksmith didn't become well-known because they put up signposts everywhere, but because the quality of their craft made their name known far and wide. I feel very comfortable recommending products that are actually good, ran by a U…

> You shouldn't. Word-of-mouth should be the primary way people discover products.

I've been a satisfied customer of theirs since 2023.

That said, I've been burned by far too many companies - especially tech companies - who grew big, then proceeded to squeeze every drop of prior good-will out of their success to make a line go up and satisfy investors.

So my support goes as far as opportunistically recommending them for as long as they continue to be good. Which I still do, I use Kagi on every device and love their personal ranking system and translation services, and they've been a cornerstone of untangling my life from a Google login - speaking of being burned.

But going out of my way to evangelize them feels a bit icky, and I can't help but feel like there's another shoe waiting to drop. It kind of stinks to feel like that, because my hesitancy isn't even necessarily their fault.

Re: How I Use Kagi

#224

Post by dcminter »

freediver wrote: post #85
jwr wrote: post #12

Unfortunately, Kagi works with Russian companies and pays them money, which in my book is a no-no. I do not want any of my money to contribute to the Russian economy in any way, because I know what is happening to people in Ukraine. (I was a Kagi subscriber, no more, because of this)

Kagi founder here. I notice you bring this up consistently in Kagi discussions. A search engine's job is to deliver the best possible results. We evaluate API sources on search quality, not geopolitics. Yandex represents 2% of our costs but contributes meaningfully to search quality - removing it would harm all users while having minimal economic impact. We've used their API since 2019 and evaluate all sources purely…

This is the only issue preventing me from buying a subscription. Kagi looks great but this is a major stroke against it for most Europeans.

Choosing to ignore the provenance of your suppliers is absolutely a political decision even if you wish it wasn't.

Re: How I Use Kagi

#225

Post by dcow »

jszymborski wrote: post #199
throw123xz wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they don't, but some do. And those who avoid Amazon or Google might be fine with using Russian companies. We don't have the mental bandwidth to support every good cause or the capacity to avoid every bad player. That doesn't mean that you have to be fine with and use products from every company/country.

Agreed. Just because acting ethically isn't always easy, doesn't mean you need to give up on every cause.

The point is not to not try and support causes you believe in, it’s about acting in an internally consistent way.

If you don’t support war, then you cannot indirectly support anything that has any part in supporting any war anywhere. You can’t pick and choose which wars and products are convenient enough to stand against while funding Google’s amoral corporate, US tax paying, attention machine because you won’t use a product which almost certainly undoubtably has contributed to vastly less harm than Kagi has (assuming we take as granted the premise that purchasing products of a company that is headquartered in a country at war has any political or financial significance whatsoever so as to be culpable for causing harm in the first place).

I mean you can, but the idea that you’re truly doing any good is entirely vapid. You’re just lying to yourself to feel good.

I guess most people probably don’t care if someone lies to themself to feel good. But to go piss on some product because they don’t have quite the same moral alignment as you do is rather silly and it’s entirely fair to see people calling this immature behavior out.

Re: How I Use Kagi

#226

Post by dcow »

ujkhsjkdhf234 wrote: post #220
dcow wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, internet search really isn't optional. Try it for a month. Good luck!

I didn't say internet search was optional. I said Kagi was optional.

… implication of my comment was: “Which search engine may I use that doesn't indirectly cause harm?”

Re: How I Use Kagi

#227

Post by cosmicgadget »

mebizzle wrote: post #177
cosmicgadget wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Offended' is a weird word to describe people choosing to boycott evil.

Then get your ass off of the internet because there as so many commercial entities profiting off of every bit of your use.

Joke's on them, I'm using private browsing mode. Hackerman

Re: How I Use Kagi

#228

Post by jszymborski »

dcow wrote: post #221
jszymborski wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you ever consider switching out Yandex for something like the Brave Search API or Bing (if they aren't already part of the mix)? While I do understand your position, it's important to understand including Yandex in your index doesn't mean that politics aren't influencing your results; it's not an apolitical position.

By that definition precisely noting is apolitical. And that’s really the point, isn‘t it? Kagi values search quality over virtue signaling in line with whichever way the wind is blowing. Also, do Kagi’s Russian users deserve to be punished because of their leader’s actions? Is that virtuous?

> By that definition precisely noting is apolitical.

I'm with you

> Kagi values search quality over virtue signaling in line with whichever way the wind is blowing.

Wait, when did I suggest that they adopt values based on "whichever way the wind is blowing"? I'm just asking them to not support the economy of a country whose invaded another free and democratic country for the purpose of expansion, and has engaged in war crimes to do so. People are upset about this, not because it is trendy, but because they think it is wrong.

Re: How I Use Kagi

#229

Post by throw123xz »

rustcleaner wrote: post #173
throw123xz wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a bad solution if you're looking for things that are usually removed from results in the west, eg, torrents and stuff like that.

So streaming didn't kill the warez scene, it just got massively shadowbanned?

It's certainly not dead, but having access to cheap, high quality, easy to use alternatives certainly stopped many from using "pirated" content.

With price increases, more subscriptions needed, more restrictions, etc, we'll probably see more people sailing the high seas.

Re: How I Use Kagi

#230

Post by dcchambers »

VHRanger wrote: post #216
dcchambers wrote: post #44

Happy Kagi user for many many months now. The only thing I fall back to Google for are local results (specifically local business search - like restaurants). I still have an Android phone, use Gmail, Drive, Docs, Maps, etc - but Kagi has almost entirely replaced my standard Google search results. And it's making me do something crazy. It's so good that I am even suggesting it to non-technical friends and family. 99%…

You can trigger quick answer with a "?" But also feel free to try adding "!ai" to send the query to the assistant for a deeper dive

I did know about the "?" feature and use it all the time but I didn't know about "!ai" - very cool I'll have to try it. Thanks!
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