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Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

thealgorithmicbridge.com

221–230 of 243 posts

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about achieving AGI as a final product, it's about building a perpetual learning machine fueled by real-time human interaction. I call it the human-AI experience flywheel. People bring problems to the LLM, the LLM produces some text, people use it and later return to iterate. This iteration functions as a feedback for earlier responses from the LLM. If you judge an AI response by the next 20 rounds of intera…

I see where you’re coming from, but I think teasing out something that looks like a clear objective function that generalizes to improved intelligence from llm interaction logs is going to be hellishly difficult. Consider, that most of the best llm pre training comes from being very very judicious with the training data, selecting the right corpus of llm interaction logs and then defining an objective function that c…

The way I see it is to use hindsight, not to come with predefined criteria. The criteria is usefulness of one LLM response in the interactions that follow it down the line.

For example, the model might propose "try doing X", and I come back later and say "I tried X but this and that happened", it can use that asa feedback. It might be a feedback generated from the real world outcomes of the X suggestion, or even from my own experience, maybe I have seen X in practice and know if it works or not. The longitudinal analysis can span multiple days, the more context the better for self analysis.

The cool thing is that generating preference scores for LLM responses, training a judge model on them, and then doing RLHF with this judge model on the base LLM ensures isolation. So personal data leaks might not be an issue. Another beneficial effect is that the judge model learns to transfer judgements skills across similar contexts, so there might be some generalization going on.

Of course there is always the risk of systematic bias and random noise in the data, but I believe AI researchers are equipped to deal with it. It won't be as simple as I described, but the size of the interaction dataset and the human in the loop, and real world testing are certainly useful for LLMs.

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is supposed to usher the humanity into a new prosperous age (somehow). More like usher in climate catastrophe way ahead of schedule. AI-driven data center build outs are a major source of new energy use, and this trend is only intensifying. Dangerously irresponsible marketing cloaks the impact of these companies on our future.

Incredibly bizarre take. You can build more capacity without frying the planet. Many ai companies are directly investing in nuclear plants for this reason, for example.

Several companies investing in AI Have made commitments to renewable and clean energy. However at most half of this increased energy demand is expected to come from renewables through 2030 and fossil fuels will continue to be heavily utilized for the massive data center build outs occurring beyond that, according to the International Energy Agency’s April 2025 report. Nuclear energy has long build outs of 10+ years. For the forseeable future the AI industry will continue to contribute to climate change, at a point in history where immediate drastic action is needed to mitigate the impending climate catastrophe.

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#224
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We only have two computational tools to work with - deterministic and random behavior. So whatever comprehension/understanding/original thought/consciousness is, it's some algorithmic combination of deterministic and random inputs/outputs. I know that sounds broad or obvious, but people seem to easily and unknowingly wander into "Human intelligence is magically transcendent".

We don't understand human intelligence enough to make any comparisons like this

Well yes, but we gotta try something. The fact that agi or human intelligence is a unknown in any engineering sense is also why it thrives in ways so amenable to nonsense. Still, we gotta try.

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Catch me if you Can movie, Leo diCaprio’s character wears a surgeon’s gown and confidently says “I concur”. What I’m hearing here is that you are willing to get your surgery done by him and not by one of the real doctors - if he is capable of pronouncing enough doctor-sounding phrases.

If that's what you're hearing, then you're not thinking it through. Of course one would not want an AI acting as a doctor as one's real doctor, but a medical or law school graduate studying for a license sure would appreciate a Socratic tutor in their specialization. Likewise, on the job in a technical specialization, a sounding board is of more value when it follows along, potentially with a virtual board of debate,…

The doctor example is good because it puts the consumer at risk. Now, it's not a parlor game. Now can llm do the same?

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#226
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel I could argue the counterpoint. Hijacking the pathways of the human brain that leads to addictive behaviour has the potential to utterly ruins peoples lives. And so talking about it, if you have good intentions, seems like a thing anyone with the heart in the right place would. Take VEO3 and YouTube integration as an example: Google made VEO3 and YouTube has shorts and are aware of the data that shows addictiv…

The fact is that not all people exhibit the described behavior. So the actions of corporations cannot be considered unambiguously bad. For example, it will help to cleanse the human gene pool of genes responsible for addictive behavior.

A quick glance at your other comments shows that your account seems to be purpose-built to come up with the most inflammatory response every single time, you might very well just be a chatgpt prompt.

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#227
post #90
post #8

Observe what the AI companies are doing, not what they are saying. If they would expect to achieve AGI soon, their behaviour would be completely different. Why bother developing chatbots or doing sales, when you will be operating AGI in a few short years? Surely, all resources should go towards that goal, as it is supposed to usher the humanity into a new prosperous age (somehow).

The people who make the money in gold rushes sold shovels, not mined the gold. Sure some random people found gold and made a lot of money, but many others didn't strike it rich. As such even if there is a lot of money AI will make, it can still be the right decision to sell tools to others who will figure out how to use it. And of course if it turns out another pointless fad with no real value you still make money. (…

> The people who make the money in gold rushes sold shovels, not mined the gold. Sure some random people found gold and made a lot of money, but many others didn't strike it rich.

Another important group to remember is those who owned the infrastructure necessary for the prospectors to survive. The folks who owned (or strong-armed their way into) the services around housing, food, alcohol, etc. made off like bandits.

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We only have two computational tools to work with - deterministic and random behavior. So whatever comprehension/understanding/original thought/consciousness is, it's some algorithmic combination of deterministic and random inputs/outputs. I know that sounds broad or obvious, but people seem to easily and unknowingly wander into "Human intelligence is magically transcendent".

What you state is called the Physical Church-Turing Thesis, and it's neither obvious nor necessarily true. I don't know if you're making it, but the simplest mistake would be to think that you can prove that a computer can evaluate any mathematical function. If that were the case then "it's got to be doable with algorithms" would have a fairly strong basis. Anything the mind does that an algorithm can't would have to…

What I am stating is a step above church-turing, that the constituents of any physical process is either deterministic or random, computability aside.

From a purely practical standpoint, we don't know of any non-computable physical systems and it's just so painfully god-of-the-gaps to say "The brain could contain new physics that transcends everything we know even though this has never proved true with any other complex system we ever gained knowledge about. It's all proved computable".

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Catch me if you Can movie, Leo diCaprio’s character wears a surgeon’s gown and confidently says “I concur”. What I’m hearing here is that you are willing to get your surgery done by him and not by one of the real doctors - if he is capable of pronouncing enough doctor-sounding phrases.

Leo diCaprio's character says nothing of substance in that scene. If you ask an LLM a question about most subjects, it will give you a highly intelligent, substantive answer.

Maybe. Or will make something up. Whether the answer is highly intelligent or a confident fabrication only an expert will know. The LLM will not know.

How is this not a showstopper?

Are we OK with the LLM taking actions in any situation where the outcome matters in any way?

Re: Problems the AI industry is not addressing adequately

#230
post #8

Observe what the AI companies are doing, not what they are saying. If they would expect to achieve AGI soon, their behaviour would be completely different. Why bother developing chatbots or doing sales, when you will be operating AGI in a few short years? Surely, all resources should go towards that goal, as it is supposed to usher the humanity into a new prosperous age (somehow).

If we just forget about AGI for a second, and looked at AI Wars as something in the vein of Search Wars Redux, wouldn’t that explain a lot of the strategy?

Granted, history doesn’t exactly repeat itself, it rhymes…

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