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Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

proton.me

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Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#221

Post by jki275 »

spongebobstoes wrote: post #150
buran77 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think any big tech company has ever done anything as evil and predatory as Apple walling off iMessage Is that really the worst thing you've seen big-tech do? That's very fortunate. What about Blackberry Messenger which was the mobile instant-messaging golden standard for years and BB exclusive for as long as it mattered in the market? Was that too long ago to remember?

my understanding is that BBM was different because there was nothing to interoperate with at the time Apple refusing RCS integration is a very clear example of hurting everyone in pursuit of profit it's likely not the most evil, but I do think it qualifies as evil. it stands out by being inarguably willful, and having a very broad impact I find harming hundreds of millions (probably billions) of friendships to be qui…

Windows Mobile? iOS absolutely existed alongside BBM as well.

Apple didn't integrate with RCS because RCS was a fragmented pile of garbage. It still is, but it's I suppose less fragmented now.

None of that "harmed" friendships, certainly not any real ones.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#222

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

wavemode wrote: post #124
andrewinardeer wrote: post #20

I'm not an Apple enthusiast—my rarely used iPad mini is my only Apple device—but let me play devil’s advocate. If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built? If my pitch is premium, high-speed hardware and intuitive software so user-…

I think it's specifically anticompetitive for Apple to force app developers to go through Apple Payments (with a 30% fee to Apple) for all purchases, otherwise their app is disallowed from being sold on the App store. There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors - it's purely a strategy for increased revenue for Apple. In antitrust terms, it is a form of Vend…

> There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors

But there is a customer experience reason. As an iOS user, I very much appreciate that I can ask Apple to cancel some bullshit subscription that used to otherwise try to lock me in behind a labyrinth of added friction and timewasting.

Not every problem is technological.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#223

Post by h4ck_th3_pl4n3t »

_benton wrote: post #142
whstl wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong. It's like complaining that Walmart hiked their prices after they drove away all Mom and Pop stores. > I think it's perfectly fine to prevent you from having this Yes I can, legally and morally.

The mom and pop stores in this analogy are the multitude of devices which are not produced by Apple and provide the same features, like Android phones and phones which are trivial to flash your own custom OS and software on. So no, your analogy does not support your conclusions.

You state it is trivial to use Android as an alternative.

How is the data checkout working on iOS to migrate to Android?

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#224

Post by spookie »

ronsor wrote: post #48
Workaccount2 wrote: post #39

I don't think any big tech company has ever done anything as evil and predatory as Apple walling off iMessage, giving the impression that Apple phones were high technology, and interacting with peasant androids is what made group chats fragment and pictures and videos look like trash. Few things are more enraging than people being left out of chats with friends and family because they didn't bend over for Apple. Even…

> - Yes, I know no one outside the US uses iMessage. Yes, people in the EU use WhatsApp, by Meta & Zuckerberg , and from what I've seen, often act as if that is some sort of mark of superiority.

I never had problems telling people: "oh I use this other one" and they probably have it alongside whatsapp.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#225

Post by scottjg »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #222
wavemode wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's specifically anticompetitive for Apple to force app developers to go through Apple Payments (with a 30% fee to Apple) for all purchases, otherwise their app is disallowed from being sold on the App store. There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors - it's purely a strategy for increased revenue for Apple. In antitrust terms, it is a form of Vend…

> There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors But there is a customer experience reason. As an iOS user, I very much appreciate that I can ask Apple to cancel some bullshit subscription that used to otherwise try to lock me in behind a labyrinth of added friction and timewasting. Not every problem is technological.

i think there are a lot of folks who would be willing to have a 27% discount (allow for ~3% card processing fee) and forego those features.

if apple was saying you had to support their payment processor alongside others (so you could opt into paying +27% and getting easy cancellations), that would be one thing, but they don't allow you to have any other options available in the app, which i think is where the anticompetitive complaints start to feel more valid.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#226

Post by wredcoll »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #222
wavemode wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's specifically anticompetitive for Apple to force app developers to go through Apple Payments (with a 30% fee to Apple) for all purchases, otherwise their app is disallowed from being sold on the App store. There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors - it's purely a strategy for increased revenue for Apple. In antitrust terms, it is a form of Vend…

> There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors But there is a customer experience reason. As an iOS user, I very much appreciate that I can ask Apple to cancel some bullshit subscription that used to otherwise try to lock me in behind a labyrinth of added friction and timewasting. Not every problem is technological.

I'm not a fancy lawyer or some kind of top flight ceo but I feel like "being able to cancel subscriptions" doesn't require a 30% cut off the top for apple.

Also, as a customer, presumably you could choose to use apple's store.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#227

Post by socalgal2 »

_benton wrote: post #102
bitpush wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you legally prevented from controlling your device The bar isnt whether it is legal or not. You know that no company can create laws, and either you're saying it out of ignorance, or willful ignorance. When Walmart drives away mom and pop shops, and dominate a certain town and then hikes the prices for groceries, you cant say "but it isnt illegal to go buy groceries from elsewhere, what did we - Walmart - do wr…

This analogy makes no sense because you are not prevented in any way from purchasing the many other devices that provide almost identical functionality. It's like complaining that Walmart hiked their prices but ignoring the fact that the mom and pop stores still exist, at a higher number compared to walmarts, and are selling the same products for cheaper. You have incredible consumer choice for phones, you can't chos…

It has absolutely zero to do with your choice to purchase a different device. It has everything to do with hundreds of thousands of companies' right to do business with customers without Apple in the middle.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#229

Post by shmerl »

andrewinardeer wrote: post #20

I'm not an Apple enthusiast—my rarely used iPad mini is my only Apple device—but let me play devil’s advocate. If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built? If my pitch is premium, high-speed hardware and intuitive software so user-…

Competition law exists for a reason, and it doesn't matter how much Apple invested, it's not negating that reason.

If anything, it's the opposite - the bigger Apple is, the worse is the damage they cause.

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