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Writing toy software is a joy

blog.jsbarretto.com

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Re: Writing toy software is a joy

#221

Post by ukuina »

teaearlgraycold wrote: post #119
Viliam1234 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now with LLMs, I simply prompt the same with a little bit more of context "pros and cons of using mysql vs mongodb when storing photos. Link references". In near future, companies will probably be able to pay lots of money to have their products come up better in the comparison. LLMs are smart enough to make the result seem "organic" -- all verifiable information will be true and supported by references, it will on…

They’re already talking about llm search optimization as the new SEO.

I believe the term is Generative Engine Optimization (GEO).

Re: Writing toy software is a joy

#222

Post by lillecarl »

Aeolun wrote: post #175
cyberpunk wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i’ve stopped writing “real” code for the most part, i just bang out some pseudo code like: read all files in directory ending in .tmpl render these as go templates if any with kind: deployment add annotation blah: bar publish to local kubeapi using sa account foo and tell it to translate it to x lang. so i control the logic, it handles the syntax. asking it to solve problems for you never seems to really work, but it…

It can solve problems, as long as they’re practical, or things done before.

LLMs are more advanced than this as shown by my example, I don't think you'll find many CSI drivers in Python on the internet.

Re: Writing toy software is a joy

#223

Post by 65 »

dakiol wrote: post #39

> Perhaps you’re a user of LLMs. I get it, they’re neat tools. They’re useful for certain kinds of learning. But I might suggest resisting the temptation to use them for projects like this. Knowledge is not supposed to be fed to you on a plate Am I the only one using LLMs as if they were a search engine? So before LLMs I was searching on Google things like "pros cons mysql mongodb". I would read the official document…

For really basic overviews of different technologies I've found YouTube videos to be useful.

For code examples I've always found GitHub code search to be super useful.

I haven't really found a use case for LLMs where it's any faster than the research tools already available on the internet.

A good example is writing AWS CDK code, which is a pain in the ass. But there are so many examples to pull from on GitHub code search that are being used in real projects that I've found this method to be faster than prompting an LLM that may or may not be correct.

Re: Writing toy software is a joy

#224

Post by 65 »

Swizec wrote: post #3

Toy Software is a lot like working on your bike/car/boat/whatever. Working on your bike is fun. Working on the bike you need to ride to work tomorrow is stressful. I miss writing toy software. It’s fun. But inevitably I want to use said software and that’s where the trouble starts. You find all the bugs and none of the time to fix them.

I really just write software for myself only. The time difference (and fun level) between writing software for yourself and writing production quality software is huge.

Feature doesn't work in Safari? Who cares, I don't use Safari anyway. No need to fix.

Re: Writing toy software is a joy

#225

Post by fritzo »

foretop_yardarm wrote: post #178
purplesyringa wrote: post #101

I'm surprised by the number of bad takes on LLMs in this thread. LLMs spoon-feed you with information about how things are implemented. You are not supposed to know how everything works when you start these projects. You're supposed to try your best, inevitably fail, then research the topic and understand where you went wrong, then adjust your approach. If you know how everything works and just follow the tutorial, y…

A lot of people say if you don’t use LLMs then you will fall behind. I’m starting to think that not using them will be a significant advantage in the long run.

Using LLMs is like moving to management: you lose your edge on detailed execution, but you improve on accountability and long-term impact.

Re: Writing toy software is a joy

#226

Post by 8note »

dakiol wrote: post #39

> Perhaps you’re a user of LLMs. I get it, they’re neat tools. They’re useful for certain kinds of learning. But I might suggest resisting the temptation to use them for projects like this. Knowledge is not supposed to be fed to you on a plate Am I the only one using LLMs as if they were a search engine? So before LLMs I was searching on Google things like "pros cons mysql mongodb". I would read the official document…

i'm currently using it in large part as a question asking tool. feed it a bunch of documents, then ask it to ask me questions to figure out whats been missed -- stuff that i probably know, or could find out, or look for more documents that have the answer, but arent clear from the documents i had handy.

this afternoon i spent some time feeding context, with the idea of making a QnA context for maybe 50 different website routes, so i can have it ask me similar questions per route, so i can have a hell of a lot of pretty accurate documentation for an intern to pick up a couple to work on, or get some LLM to take a try at filling out the details.

im feeding it knowledge, with the output being documents, rather than me getting knowledge from it.

Re: Writing toy software is a joy

#227

Post by 8note »

alganet wrote: post #59
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would just add that gen AI can actually be a fantastic aid when you're building some toy projects just for yourself. I am primarily a backend engineer, though I am capable on the front end, just not particularly fast. I am especially slow at the voodoo that is CSS. In the past, I would have been turned off from doing some end-to-end personal projects because I know I would have been bogged down just battling CSS fo…

A good reality check is: if a stranger asks you about a specific part of your toy project, would you be able to explain it? If you can't, it means there's something there you don't understand, and you lost an opportunity to learn. Of course, this is also true for reusing libraries and stuff. Within a job, what matters is the _team learning_, and it's roughly the same idea. At least one person in the team should be ab…

my current opinion is that uf i can get an ai to write details into a file that another team member's ai can read and then know whats up, thats close to the same as the team member knowing it, as long as theyre either reading the file that the ai read, or working through the ai and providing that file(s) as context.

Re: Writing toy software is a joy

#228

Post by 8note »

foretop_yardarm wrote: post #178
purplesyringa wrote: post #101

I'm surprised by the number of bad takes on LLMs in this thread. LLMs spoon-feed you with information about how things are implemented. You are not supposed to know how everything works when you start these projects. You're supposed to try your best, inevitably fail, then research the topic and understand where you went wrong, then adjust your approach. If you know how everything works and just follow the tutorial, y…

A lot of people say if you don’t use LLMs then you will fall behind. I’m starting to think that not using them will be a significant advantage in the long run.

i think theres both. the LLM is an incredible tool you should be able to use well, but its a complement to your other knowledge and tools, not a replacement. if you dont add the LLM to your toolset, youre not going to be building at the same scale as people who are, and if you dont have the backing knowledge, your LLM outputs are gonna be junk because you wont be able to point it in the right direction soon enough in the context window

Re: Writing toy software is a joy

#229

Post by mrheosuper »

alganet wrote: post #59
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would just add that gen AI can actually be a fantastic aid when you're building some toy projects just for yourself. I am primarily a backend engineer, though I am capable on the front end, just not particularly fast. I am especially slow at the voodoo that is CSS. In the past, I would have been turned off from doing some end-to-end personal projects because I know I would have been bogged down just battling CSS fo…

A good reality check is: if a stranger asks you about a specific part of your toy project, would you be able to explain it? If you can't, it means there's something there you don't understand, and you lost an opportunity to learn. Of course, this is also true for reusing libraries and stuff. Within a job, what matters is the _team learning_, and it's roughly the same idea. At least one person in the team should be ab…

unless you own/write the whole software stack(not the web stack), i doubt anyone can fully explain their project.

For example, if in your project you have to write a file, and someone ask you how does the kernel cache file writting, that would not be an easy question.

Re: Writing toy software is a joy

#230

Post by tom_m »

dakiol wrote: post #39

> Perhaps you’re a user of LLMs. I get it, they’re neat tools. They’re useful for certain kinds of learning. But I might suggest resisting the temptation to use them for projects like this. Knowledge is not supposed to be fed to you on a plate Am I the only one using LLMs as if they were a search engine? So before LLMs I was searching on Google things like "pros cons mysql mongodb". I would read the official document…

Nope! I use llms like I used to use Google and StackOverflow. Really great to bounce ideas off of, brainstorm, yes save time too ... But the at the end of the day, what will separate programmers in the future is those that bother to put an ounce of effort into things, read, and learn. Versus those who want the easy button and answer given to them. They're going to be the next generation of people who leak your passwords, social security numbers, PII, and create massive global security incidents.

To be clear. AI doesn't kill people. People kill people. In this case, lazy people. Welcome to Idiocracy my friends.

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