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What happens when people don't understand how AI works

theatlantic.com

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Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#221

Post by beardedwizard »

stuckinhell wrote: post #160
beardedwizard wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple recently published a paper that seems to disagree and plainly states it's just pattern matching along with tests to prove it. https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/illusion-of-think...

I'm having a hard time taking apple seriously, when they have don't even have a great llm. https://www.techrepublic.com/article/news-anthropic-ceo-ai-i... Anthropic CEO: “We Do Not Understand How Our Own AI Creations Work”. I'm going to lean with Anthropic on this one.

I guess I prefer to look at empirical evidence over feelings and arbitrary statements. AI ceos are notoriously full of crap and make statements with perverse financial incentives.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#222

Post by pmdr »

> Whitney Wolfe Herd, the founder of the dating app Bumble, proclaimed last year that the platform may soon allow users to automate dating itself, disrupting old-fashioned human courtship by providing them with an AI “dating concierge” that will interact with other users’ concierges until the chatbots find a good fit.

> Herd doubled down on these claims in a lengthy New York Times interview last month.

Seriously, what is wrong with these people?

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#223

Post by quickthrowman »

pmdr wrote: post #222

> Whitney Wolfe Herd, the founder of the dating app Bumble, proclaimed last year that the platform may soon allow users to automate dating itself, disrupting old-fashioned human courtship by providing them with an AI “dating concierge” that will interact with other users’ concierges until the chatbots find a good fit. > Herd doubled down on these claims in a lengthy New York Times interview last month. Seriously, wha…

Well, her specific problem is she was a billionaire but isn’t one now so she’ll say damn near anything to regain that third comma. Nothing more than greed. Match just keeps Bumble around to avoid antitrust legislation, similar to Google and Mozilla’s position.

Edit: It’s not that wild of an idea anyways, there’s a good black mirror episode about it.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#224

Post by jajko »

pmdr wrote: post #222

> Whitney Wolfe Herd, the founder of the dating app Bumble, proclaimed last year that the platform may soon allow users to automate dating itself, disrupting old-fashioned human courtship by providing them with an AI “dating concierge” that will interact with other users’ concierges until the chatbots find a good fit. > Herd doubled down on these claims in a lengthy New York Times interview last month. Seriously, wha…

if it works (from their perspective), it ain't stupid

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#225

Post by dmos62 »

duxup wrote: post #202
dmos62 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be thinking if the brain was modeled in a more "accurate" way? Does this set of criteria for thinkingness come from whether or not the underlying machinery resembles what the corresponding machinery in humans looks like under the hood? I'm putting the word accurate in quotes, because we'd have to understand how the brain in humans works, to have a measure for accuracy, which is very much not the case, in my…

IMO it would depend on what it is actually doing. Right now the fact that it just string words together without knowing the meaning is painfully obvious when it fails. I'll ask a simple question and get a "Yes" back and then it lists all the reasons that indicate the answer is very clearly "No." But it is clear that the LLM doesn't "know" what it is saying.

My definition of thinking tends towards functionality rather than mechanics too. I would summarize my experience with LLMs by saying that they think, but a bit differently, for some definition of "a bit".

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#226

Post by AlecSchueler »

freejazz wrote: post #190
AlecSchueler wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually the point I was making. There's an assumption that the LLM is working differently because there's a statistical model but we lack the understanding of our own intelligence to be able to say this is indeed a difference.

So? There is no more evidence to suggest they are the same than what you've already rejected here as evidencing difference.

I know but I didn't claim they were the same, I simply questioned the position that they were different. The fact is we don't know, so it seems like a poor basis for building off of

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#227

Post by throwawaymaths »

827a wrote: post #220
throwawaymaths wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do they matter in a practical sense? an LLM can write a structured essay better than most undergrads. and as for measuring "smart", we throw that word around a lot. a dog is smart in a human way for being able to fetch one of 30 objects based on name or to drive a car (yes, dogs can drive), the bar for "smart" is pretty low, claiming llms are not smart is just prejudice.

Well; many LLMs can compose a structured essay better than most undergrounds, yet most also struggle with basic addition. E.g. Gemma-3-4B: add 1 and 1 google/gemma-3-4b 1 + 1 = 2 add four to that google/gemma-3-4b 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 4 So, 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 4 = 8 Of course, smarter, billion dollar LLMs can do that. But, they aren't able to fetch one of 30 objects based on name, nor can they drive a car. They're often super…

the llm by default (without better prompting) is vibe solving math, and if you tell a human to vibe solve it they might give similar results. tell a teenager to add two three digit numbers without a scratchpad and they will mess up in similar ways, tell an llm to show and check their work and they will do much better.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#228

Post by throwawaymaths »

mjburgess wrote: post #219
throwawaymaths wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do they matter in a practical sense? an LLM can write a structured essay better than most undergrads. and as for measuring "smart", we throw that word around a lot. a dog is smart in a human way for being able to fetch one of 30 objects based on name or to drive a car (yes, dogs can drive), the bar for "smart" is pretty low, claiming llms are not smart is just prejudice.

You are assuming that because we measure an undergrad's ability to critical think with undergrad essays, that is a valid test for the LLM's capacity to think -- it isnt. This measures only, extremely narrowly, the LLM's capacity to produce undergrad essays. Society doesnt require undergrad essays. Nor does it require yet another webserver, iot script, or weekend hobby project. Society has all of those things already,…

if this is how you feel you haven't really used llms enough or are deliberately ignoring sporadically appearing data. github copilot for me routinely solves microproblems in unexplored areas it has no business knowing. Not always, but it's also not zero.

...and i encourage you to be more realistic about the market and what society "needs". does society really need an army of consultants at accenture? i dont know. but they are getting paid a lot. does that mean the allocation of resources is wrong? or does that mean theres something cynical but real in their existence?

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#229

Post by MetaWhirledPeas »

Terr_ wrote: post #214
duxup wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The terminology is so confusing in AI right now. I use LLMs, I enjoy them, I'm more productive with them. Then I go read a blog from some AI devs and they use terms like "thinking" or similar terms. I always have to ask "We're still s stringing words together with math right? Not really thinking right?" The answer is always yes ... but then they go back to using their wonky terms.

Sometimes we anthropomorphize complex systems and it's not really a problem, like how water "tries" to flow downhill, or the printer "wants" cyan ink. It's how we signal there's sufficient complexity (or unknowns) that can be ignored or deferred. The problem arises when we apply this intuition to things where too many people in the audience might take it literally.

Well the solution certainly isn't, "Let's wait for the bot to finish stringing words together with math before we decide our itinerary."

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#230

Post by MetaWhirledPeas »

stronglikedan wrote: post #199
duxup wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The terminology is so confusing in AI right now. I use LLMs, I enjoy them, I'm more productive with them. Then I go read a blog from some AI devs and they use terms like "thinking" or similar terms. I always have to ask "We're still s stringing words together with math right? Not really thinking right?" The answer is always yes ... but then they go back to using their wonky terms.

Thank Feynman for those wonky terms. Now everyone acts like their target audience is a bunch of six year olds.

How do you plan to convey this information to laymen in everyday conversations?
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