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How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

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Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#221

Post by Paradigma11 »

transcriptase wrote: post #166
jajko wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why nobody us building automated shotgun based solutions for anti-air defenses... maybe they need more than 100-150m reliable reach? Having 300 of those covering one airfield may not be ideal, nor cost effective, nor easy to manufacture and deploy and maintain in such numbers... we talk about russia after all, they let most of their strategic bombers arrogantly unprotected on runways with full gas tanks. I don't thin…

They’re parked in the open because of the treaty requiring those type of assets be observable by spy satellites. The USA in turn does the same.

Nope. You are talking about the New Start treaty.

1) Russia suspended the treaty 2023, so it is not relevant here.

2) The use of hangars is not prohibited, as can be seen by the climatized hangars that the US keeps their B1 in.

3) Russia has announced plans for such reinforced hangars years ago, but very likely some dacha or yacht had higher priority.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#222

Post by RenThraysk »

dmkolobov wrote: post #210
RenThraysk wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are just continuing to spout nonsense. Camera drone hovers above target and kamakazi drone intersects the line between camera and target, and drops.

So now the camera is pointed at the target? How is it checking that the other drones are headed in the right direction? And the personnel on the ground? They're just chillin' waiting for those other drones to come intersect with the stationary spotter drone's line of sight?

You are raging, and your thinking has ceased.

We've had two years of footage of drones being flown over tanks, and bombs dropped directly down into them.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#223

Post by Paradigma11 »

xeromal wrote: post #193
wood_spirit wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the ocean protect America from swarms of short range drones being launched from normal looking shipping containers on trucks being controlled from thousands of miles away?

The first volley would work of course but then container ships are gonna be nuked from orbit after that

Which would utterly destroy the US economy and do more damage than any drone attack.

Plus imagine if those attackers realize they can ship those containers from Mexico or Canada.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#224

Post by SoftTalker »

lawlessone wrote: post #92
flave wrote: post #15

I really don’t get all the fretting about drones making kill-no-kill decisions. You’re telling me that you’d rather this was done by a stressed, emotional, tired front-line private? Reminds me of the debate about a self driving car that might need to mount the curb to avoid hitting a car - and therefore endangering a pedestrian. It’s not an easy decision but I’d rather a machine made it than a stressed person!

>It’s not an easy decision but I’d rather a machine made it than a stressed person! A machine also can't be held responsible. Who do the surviving relatives of the crush pedestrian sue? No longer the driver i guess

Normally the owner of the vehicle, at least if the driver was using it with their permission. Think about this before you let someone borrow your car.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#225

Post by jandrese »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #201
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given these are static targets, it might be possible to relay precise GPS information from that morning’s satellite data. No real time intelligence required. Just dead reckoning to the target coordinates.

Dead reckoning in a drone would be a nearly impossible feat considering how variable wind can be.

If you have a downward facing camera you can track your movement like an optical mouse by just watching the terrain. Error will creep in, but you only need to fly a few kilometers till you find something that looks like a strategic bomber.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#226

Post by stego-tech »

Drone warfare has always been equal parts distressing (it’s impersonal, it’s too easy to leverage, and therefore too easy to abuse) and incredible (ultra-thin fiber as a kite line? Brilliant!) to me. These advances are no different.

That said, I do fret we’re staring down a new age of guerrilla warfare. Drones are cheap, widely available, and increasingly autonomous. Their countermeasures are either impractical for communities (AA Cannons or automated firearms) or costly (jammers, interceptors). The programming can be set-and-forget, meaning operations can be staged months ahead of deployment and make it difficult to find or prevent. The autonomy of target termination specifically raises concerns for the immediate future of violent uprisings, coups, and civil wars.

As an engineer, I am fascinated by it all. As a human, I am horrified that we democratized violence on this scale.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#227

Post by lenerdenator »

pjc50 wrote: post #187
lenerdenator wrote: post #78

Hoping and praying someone in the administration is able to convince Trump to align closer to Ukraine (even if only slightly) because of this. The Ukrainians pulled off an absolute coup on Sunday. A third of a nuclear-armed country's strategic bomber fleet inoperable for the foreseeable future. Someone at NORAD probably said "they should have sent a poet" while looking at the satellite imagery. If middle powers like…

The US seems to have given up on the concept of being on the "good side" of anyone and retreated to the safety of bullying and threatening to invade Canada (as a "joke"?)

Most people have given up the concept of being on the "good side".

That's how Trumpism can gain any traction at all. The amount of international engagement Russia had as Putin made himself tsar was embarrassing, and to a person with no scruples if the money is right - like Trump - it just illustrates that the guardrails aren't really there.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#228

Post by eloisius »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #201
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given these are static targets, it might be possible to relay precise GPS information from that morning’s satellite data. No real time intelligence required. Just dead reckoning to the target coordinates.

Dead reckoning in a drone would be a nearly impossible feat considering how variable wind can be.

Dead reckoning with error correction using known landmarks like highways, maybe

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#229

Post by dmkolobov »

RenThraysk wrote: post #222
dmkolobov wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now the camera is pointed at the target? How is it checking that the other drones are headed in the right direction? And the personnel on the ground? They're just chillin' waiting for those other drones to come intersect with the stationary spotter drone's line of sight?

You are raging, and your thinking has ceased. We've had two years of footage of drones being flown over tanks, and bombs dropped directly down into them.

No one is arguing the merits of drone warfare.

We have two years of footage from Ukraine, where camera-equipped drones are launched from a several miles away at most, and where there are networks of pilots and support specialists to assemble and launch more drones in case of (frequent) failure.

I don’t think it’s wise to wager the success of a 6-month mission deep in enemy territory on a plan with a single point of failure, especially when the alternative is equipping each drone with But sure, you’re clearly the better thinker.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#230

Post by nadermx »

stego-tech wrote: post #226

Drone warfare has always been equal parts distressing (it’s impersonal, it’s too easy to leverage, and therefore too easy to abuse) and incredible (ultra-thin fiber as a kite line? Brilliant!) to me. These advances are no different. That said, I do fret we’re staring down a new age of guerrilla warfare. Drones are cheap, widely available, and increasingly autonomous. Their countermeasures are either impractical for c…

I mean if war has existed since the dawn of man. Maybe we are trying to fix the problem incorrectly.
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