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Cinematography of “Andor”

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Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#221

Post by mystifyingpoi »

xorcist wrote: post #132

What I don't understand is how film crews can work together when they are larger than two pizza teams? And when they want to change something, it's almost like they just do it? Surely they have to file a ticket with the Product Owner first? And why don't they wait until the current sprint is done before doing things that clearly belongs to the next one? Why do the producer run around speaking in precise terms when he…

You are comparing a poorly managed software project with a well managed movie production. The conclusion of such is obvious.

Have you ever watched a "bad" movie? There is your answer :)

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#222

Post by mananaysiempre »

gsich wrote: post #149
xorcist wrote: post #132

What I don't understand is how film crews can work together when they are larger than two pizza teams? And when they want to change something, it's almost like they just do it? Surely they have to file a ticket with the Product Owner first? And why don't they wait until the current sprint is done before doing things that clearly belongs to the next one? Why do the producer run around speaking in precise terms when he…

>two pizza teams 1 person teams?

Enough to feed with two pizzas[1].

[1] https://martinfowler.com/bliki/TwoPizzaTeam.html

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#223

Post by dylan604 »

xorcist wrote: post #132

What I don't understand is how film crews can work together when they are larger than two pizza teams? And when they want to change something, it's almost like they just do it? Surely they have to file a ticket with the Product Owner first? And why don't they wait until the current sprint is done before doing things that clearly belongs to the next one? Why do the producer run around speaking in precise terms when he…

There's a creative energy that comes when something that has been planned for days/weeks/months suddenly can't be done but the expense of the equipment, cast/crew, location is going to be owed anyways is one of my favorite things about working in production. Only the largest of box office budget productions can actually shut down, but even they have the "behind schedule, over budget" issues too. Everyone works within their teams to solve the issue in ways that someone not on set would probably never know about, but ends up "saving the day" or whatever. There's a lot of hurry up and wait on set, but sometimes those hurry up moments are a lot of fun.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#224

Post by troupo »

hackyhacky wrote: post #219
troupo wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone gushing over Rogue One... but it was at best barely competent. 10-20 minutes of static talking heads, 5 minutes of mediocre action. Repeat until the end. Meaningless side-quests. The final is a thousand cliches one after another culminating in a "main computer at the end of a rickety walkway" and "a kiss at the sunset". The only reason it's hailed as the greatest movie ever is because so much of the Star War…

> a kiss at the sunset They don't kiss. And that's not a sunset.

You know exactly what I mean. It couldn't have been more predictable, cheezy and cliched if it was and actual kiss at the sunset

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#225

Post by mystifyingpoi »

poisonborz wrote: post #67

Andor is a huge middle finger for everything that came after the original trilogy. It manages to be menacing and showing a convincing rebellion against realistic fascism - relying heavily on the tones of the old films - without any of the dumb Jedi magic, light sabers andd mystic blabble.

What's wrong with light sabers? It's just a weapon with some useful properties (like bouncing back blaster shots). Finn used it fine for a sec, so it's proven that the user doesn't need to be trained at all in anything really.

The Force though... yeah, as much as I'm a big fan of SW, the whole concept leans way too hard into soft magic territory, at least to my taste.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#226

Post by MangoToupe »

emblo wrote: post #144
MangoToupe wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually greatly prefer the prequels to the original trilogy. I suspect it has to do with the fact that I was a child when episode 1 came out and I was still a child when the prequels concluded. A big part of the problem is that these movies were written, basically, for 12-year old boys. You're not going to be able to get that spark back as an adult, and it's not easy to make a movie that appeals so strongly to bot…

I agree with most of what you're saying—that much of it is driven by nostalgia, and it's not worth getting super worked up about these things, and it's fine for people to like whatever they like—but if you do want to get into a discussion about art and the relative merits of these shows, there are good arguments that the originals executed on things like character and plot that the prequels just didn't. Red Letter Me…

Oh yea, critiquing movies is fun as hell, and with a franchise like star wars there's basically endless opportunity for it. I basically think Phantom Menace gets way too much critique, Clone Wars/A New Hope/Return of the Jedi don't get enough. Empire Strikes Back is really good, and whatever the third movie is was just kind of bland and depressing(it has some of the best action sequences of the series, but Padmé should have featured more strongly before dying offscreen.)

But there's a reason why the star wars fandom has such a stank reputation, and it's 100% because adult men care way too much about something meant for children to a quite creepy extent. Two things immediately come to mind: 1) the explicit and physical sexualization of Leia, which I understand but definitely don't think was necessary in retrospect (at least not so ham-handedly), and 2) the abuse of the guy who did the Jar Jar Binks voice acting. It's not his fault Lucas wrote the character as a moronic alien speaking patois. I wasn't aware of the abuse until long after it was over, but I adored jar jar binks as an eight year old boy and didn't understand why he was thereafter sidelined. This makes me also question whether criticisms by adults of the new content is a reflection of what we actually loved growing up. Could a character as weird as Yoda make it into a film now without catering much stronger to people eager to deconstruct him into eg orientalist stereotypes? Would Luke really be allowed to kiss his sister? Would Han Solo be allowed to shoot first, really?

Even the sexualization of Leia—look I'm into pulp fiction, I understand what shallow sexual stereotypes can deliver in terms of entertainment, it wasn't and still isn't crazy. You can see the same phenomenon in the current explosion of mass-published erotica ("romance"). But the stories I've heard about what Fisher was subjected to make me look at the fandom with pretty severe prejudice. It makes nerds look bad, and I also think the success of Indiana Jones shows that this wasn't necessary. It's also not the easiest thing to explain to a child or teenager who grasps something of the power dynamic between Jabba the Hutt and Leia but doesn't have the social knowledge or, frankly, cynicism to make the sense of it we do as adults.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#227

Post by [deleted] »

emptysongglass wrote: post #76
guilamu wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You guys are excluding the George Lucas movies from discussion right?" We are not. Andor is the best Star Wars ever made, full stop. IMHO, it surpasses, by far, anything Lucas ever did.

Yes, it's easy to view Lucas' films with a rose-tinted lens, but try and watch them now and you see: poor acting, poor writing, one-dimensional characters and plot points.

[deleted]

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#228

Post by Karrot_Kream »

emblo wrote: post #144
MangoToupe wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually greatly prefer the prequels to the original trilogy. I suspect it has to do with the fact that I was a child when episode 1 came out and I was still a child when the prequels concluded. A big part of the problem is that these movies were written, basically, for 12-year old boys. You're not going to be able to get that spark back as an adult, and it's not easy to make a movie that appeals so strongly to bot…

I agree with most of what you're saying—that much of it is driven by nostalgia, and it's not worth getting super worked up about these things, and it's fine for people to like whatever they like—but if you do want to get into a discussion about art and the relative merits of these shows, there are good arguments that the originals executed on things like character and plot that the prequels just didn't. Red Letter Me…

I enjoyed the Red Letter Media series but felt it was unfair on the Prequels (which is fine, RLM is still a great series.) I ended up watching the OT a bit after Episode 2 and found them to be just as campy and flaw filled as the Prequels just in different places. But this has been litigated to death on the net since Usenet days so I'm not sure if we're gonna break new ground here (:

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#229

Post by mopenstein »

fettel wrote: post #93
apples_oranges wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys are excluding the George Lucas movies from discussion right? In my opinion nothing ever came even close and I gave up on SW after the second Kylo Ren movie. Rouge one was cool though, also first episodes of Mandalorian.. Should I really try Andor after all the bad stuff Disney made? A few days ago I watched the new LILO and Stitch and that was great, so maybe good people still work at Disney …

I'm a lifelong Star Wars fan, fell in love as a young kid. I remember being in 8th grade and being so excited for the prequels, and then walking out of the theater after Ep. 1 and feeling like something was just... wrong. I knew that it was junk, and not the Star Wars I fell in love with. And from there it was pretty much further and further downhill, with occasional glimpses of hope that were quickly dashed. I tried…

This can't be true. I'm reading all these positive accolades for Andor in this thread and there's no way I'm watching it.

Star Wars after Jedi is garbage. Lucas got me with those awful prequels and Disney got me with the first 2 new movies. I will never watch another Star Wars anything outside of the original 3 movies.

Either you never really abandon your Star Wars fandom or you're lying. There can be no other choice.

One cannot be shat upon by corporate hucksters that much and still think, "okay. I'll give 'em one more chance to shit in my eyes and ears"

Is just not possible.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#230

Post by wizardforhire »

xorcist wrote: post #132

What I don't understand is how film crews can work together when they are larger than two pizza teams? And when they want to change something, it's almost like they just do it? Surely they have to file a ticket with the Product Owner first? And why don't they wait until the current sprint is done before doing things that clearly belongs to the next one? Why do the producer run around speaking in precise terms when he…

Film sets can seem enigmatic, the pacing, the language, the decorum. Film has over a hundred years of cultural development that manifests on set as set etiquette. Combined with mature unions that actively and heavily defend their trades. It can seem ridiculous and wasteful to the uninitiated… and indy productions split off constantly to try and reinvent the wheel only for individuals later in their career to converge back to established industry practices. In software there seems to be an overwhelming and toxic opinion that tech can solve all problems and that disruption at all cost is good. While not to dismiss these opinions wholeheartedly the wake of their destruction is not to be ignored. In film the human element is not only never ignored, it is the soul reason for being. As a creative endeavor whose output ideally is art, the working relationships, delegation of duties and decision making power is well established and enforced in the interest of efficient collaboration. Software on the other hand seems to be fully staffed with individuals who rarely get past tier four on the Maslow hierarchy, are entirely individualistic, highly competitive to a fault and in a never ending combative relationship with management that seems to be highly antithetical to the act of creation. For lack of deeper insights I chock it up to different financial incentives in the respective industries writ large. One is making cultural artistic or purely entertainment artifacts for humans, the other arguably creating solutions maybe for humans maybe not with the only goal of always more money no matter what.
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