Live data from Hacker News

Migrating away from Rust

deadmoney.gg

221–230 of 799 posts

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#221
post #204

The fact that people love the language is an unexpected downside. In my experience the rust ecosystem has an insanely high churn rate. Crates are often abandoned seemingly for no reason, often before even hitting 1.0. My theory is this is because people want to use rust primarily, the domain problem is just a challenge, like a level in a game. Once all the fun parts are solved, they leave it for dead. Conversely and…

[deleted]

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#222
post #214

This can be summarized in a simple way: UI is totally, another world. There is not chance for any language, not matter how good is it, to match the most horrendous (web!) but full-featured ui toolkit. I bet, 1000%, that is easier to do a OS, a database engine, etc that try to match QT, Delphi, Unity, etc. --- I made a decision that has become the most productive and problem-less approach of make UIs in my 30 years do…

I disagree. The issue, which the article mentions, is iteration time. They were having issues iterating on gameplay, not UI. My own experiences with game dev and Rust (which are separate experiences, I should add) resonate with what the article is expressing. Iterating systems is common in gamedev and Rust is slow to iterate because its precision ossifies systems. This is GREAT for safety, it's crap for momentum and fluidity

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#223
post #208

I really like Rust as a replacement for C++, especially given that C++ seems to become crazier every year. When reasonable, nowadays I always use Rust instead of C++. But for the vast majority of projects, I believe that C++ is not the right language, meaning that Rust isn't, either. I feel like many people choose Rust because is sounds like it's more efficient, a bit as if people went for C++ instead of a JVM langua…

Rust is actually quite suitable for a number of domains where it was never intended to excel.

Writing web service backends is one domain where Rust absolutely kicks ass. I would choose Rust/(Actix or Axum) over Go or Flask any day. The database story is a little rough around the edges, but it's getting better and SQLx is good enough for me.

edit: The downvoters are missing out.

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#224
post #104
post #63

Using poor quality AI suggestions as a reason not to use Rust is a super weird argument. Something is very wrong with such idea. What's going to be next, avoiding everything where AI performs poorly? Scripting being flexible is a proper idea, but that's not an argument against Rust either. Rather it's an argument for more separation between scripting machinery and the core engine. For example Godot allows using Rust…

it could be a weird argument, but as a rust newcomer, i have to say it's really something that jumps to your face. LLMs are practically useless for anything non-basic, and rust contains a lot non-basic things.

So, what are the chances that the pendulum swings to lower-level programming via LLM-generated C/C++ if LLM-generated Rust doesn't emerge? Note that this question is a context switch from gaming to something larger. For gaming, it could easily be that the engine and culture around it (frequent regressions, etc) are the bigger problems than the language.

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#225
post #211
post #208

I really like Rust as a replacement for C++, especially given that C++ seems to become crazier every year. When reasonable, nowadays I always use Rust instead of C++. But for the vast majority of projects, I believe that C++ is not the right language, meaning that Rust isn't, either. I feel like many people choose Rust because is sounds like it's more efficient, a bit as if people went for C++ instead of a JVM langua…

I agree with you except for the JVM bit - but everyone's application varies

You think the JVM is slow?

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#226
post #208

I really like Rust as a replacement for C++, especially given that C++ seems to become crazier every year. When reasonable, nowadays I always use Rust instead of C++. But for the vast majority of projects, I believe that C++ is not the right language, meaning that Rust isn't, either. I feel like many people choose Rust because is sounds like it's more efficient, a bit as if people went for C++ instead of a JVM langua…

Rust is very easy when you want to do easy things. You can actually just completely avoid the borrow-checker altogether if you want to. Just .clone(), or Arc/Mutex. It's what all the other languages (like Go or Java) are doing anyway.

But if you want to do a difficult and complicated thing, then Rust is going to raise the guard rails. Your program won't even compile if it's unsafe. It won't let you make a buggy app. So now you need to back up and decide if you want it to be easy, or you want it to be correct.

Yes, Rust is hard. But it doesn't have to be if you don't want.

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#227
Honey, a new incantation to summon Cthulhu just dropped.

    pub fn randomize_paperdoll(
        mut commands: Commands,
        views: Query, &Id, &View), Added>,
        models: Query, Without>,
        attachment_assets: Res,
        spine_manifest: Res,
        slot_manifest: Res,
    ) {

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also you’re strictly forbidden from shipping Rust code on PlayStation. So if you have a breakout indie hit on Steam in Rust (which has never happened) you can’t ship it on PS5. And maybe not Switch although I’m less certain. What evidence do you have for this statement? It kind of doesn't make any sense on its face. Binaries are binaries, no matter what tools are used to compile them. Sure, you might need to use wh…

Sony mandates you use their toolchain. You don’t get to ship whatever you want on their console. They have a very thorough TRC check you must pass before you get to ship.

Rust being forbidden on a platform, and Rust being unsupported out-of-the-box with the SDK toolchain, seem to me like they're rather different things?

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#229

More than anything else, this sounds like a good lesson in why commercial game engines have taken over most of game dev. There are so many things you have to do to make a game, but they're mostly quite common and have lots of off-the-shelf solutions. That is, any sufficiently mature indie game project will end up implementing an informally specified, ad hoc, bug-ridden implementation of Unity (... or just use the inf…

And yet, if making your own game engine makes it intellectually stimulating enough to actually make and ship a game, usually for near free, going 10x slower is still better than going at a speed of zero.

I would bet that if you want to build a game engine and not the game, the game itself is probably not that compelling. Could still break out, like Minecraft, but if someone has an amazing game idea I would think they would want to ship it as fast as possible.

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#230
post #214

This can be summarized in a simple way: UI is totally, another world. There is not chance for any language, not matter how good is it, to match the most horrendous (web!) but full-featured ui toolkit. I bet, 1000%, that is easier to do a OS, a database engine, etc that try to match QT, Delphi, Unity, etc. --- I made a decision that has become the most productive and problem-less approach of make UIs in my 30 years do…

> I bet, 1000%, that is easier to do a OS, a database engine, etc that try to match QT, Delphi, Unity, etc.

I 100% agree. A modern mature UI toolkit is at least equivalent to a modern game engine in difficulty. GitHub is strewn with the corpses of abandoned FOSS UI toolkits that got 80% of the way there only to discover that the other 20% of the problem is actually 20000% of the work.

The only way you have a chance developing a UI toolkit is to start in full self awareness of just how hard this is going to be. Saying "I am going to develop a modern UI toolkit" is like saying "I am going to develop a complete operating system."

Even worse: a lot of the work that goes into a good UI toolkit is the kind of work programmers hate: endless fixing of nit-picky edge case bugs, implementation of standards, and catering to user needs that do not overlap with one's own preferences.

Post reply on HN