This is a privacy nightmare. Mandatory biometrics are pure insanity.
> Mandatory biometrics are pure insanity.
Yup someone tell the US government, because visitors can't enter the US without giving biometrics
Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'
221–230 of 448 posts
Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
At least the ways that a corner shop verifies age don't have the same downsides as typical online age verifiers. They just look at an ID document; verify that it's on the official list of acceptable ID documents, seems to be genuine and valid and unexpired, appears to relate to the person buying the product, and shows an old enough age; and hand the document back. The corner shop has far fewer false negatives, far lo…
> and unexpired Because certainly one's identity might totally change if one's ID card expires...
Expiry places a bound on duplication and forcing additional duplication allows you to update standards. It's a tradeoff to produce a strictness ratchet.
Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'
#223Regulators would never comprehend internet. They are making it look like they have no idea that on the internet you can: move to another country without visa in 2 minutes, change your face, voice, fingerprints to whatever you like. Get any passport, any document you want to mock any KYC or impersonate anyone without a trace, all within 10$ range.
Sure, companies have no option but to implement funny policies like these, and I'm sure any kid is much smarter than the government, so he will feel good circumventing it.
Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'
#224A long, long time ago (within the past ten years), I had to verify my age with a site. They didn't ask for my ID, or my facial scan, but instead asked for my credit card number. They issued a refund to the card of a few cents, and I had to tell them (within 24hr) how much the refund was for, after which point they'd issue a charge to claw it back. They made it clear that debit and gift cards would not be accepted, it…
I had a debit card when I was 13. An absolute godsend during international travel, not having to bother with cash as a forgetful teenager. The card providers share your identity in monetary transactions, but I don't think this data does & should include birthdate.
These checks accept only a credit card.
That's useful as one option, but can't be expected of 18 year olds in most countries, and older adults in many.
Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'
#225A long, long time ago (within the past ten years), I had to verify my age with a site. They didn't ask for my ID, or my facial scan, but instead asked for my credit card number. They issued a refund to the card of a few cents, and I had to tell them (within 24hr) how much the refund was for, after which point they'd issue a charge to claw it back. They made it clear that debit and gift cards would not be accepted, it…
What you describe is called QES (Qualified Electronic Signature) and is still widely used to validate identities.
Unfortunately it is not enough to prove an identity (you could be using the credit card of your traveling uncle) and regulation requires for it to be combined with another proof.
I see a lot of people associating identity verification with evil intent (advertising, tracking).
I work in this domain and the reality is a lot less interesting: identity verification companies do this and only this, under strict scrutiny both from their customers and from the regulators.
We are not where we want to be from a privacy standpoint but the industry is making progress and the usage of identity data is strictly regulated.
Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'
#226I would like to think there there is a solution that can be engineered, in which a service is able to verify that a user is above an appropriate age threshold, while maintaining privacy safeguards, including, where relevant, for the age-protected service not to be privy to the identity of the user, and for the age verification service to not be privy to the nature of the age-protected service being accessed. In this…
> a service is able to verify that a user is above an appropriate age threshold, while maintaining privacy safeguards
AFAIU, the German electronic ID card ("elektronischer Personalausweis") can do this, but it is not widely implemented, and of course geographically limited.
Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'
#227I don't think the problem is that young people are finding porn on the internet. There is a problem, though, and it has to deal with psychological warfare on attention Formats like shorts or news feeds to you algorithmically with zero lag are the problem. It makes for the zombification of decision making. Endless content breaks people down precisely because it's endless. I think if you add age verification but don't…
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Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
Transferring your age and a way to verify it to any third party is by definition a privacy violation. Doing so in a safe way is literally impossible since I don't want to share that information in the first place.
Do you feel this way when you enter credit card information when making a purchase online?
Yes.
Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'
#229It's worth noting that Matt Navarra, the sole source of "this is part of a bigger shift", is an ex member of the UK government who worked in the PM's office and worked for the BBC.
This story is a tempest in a teacup. The administration found someone to spread this nonsense so every later goes "well that was inevitable, the BBC predicted it would be."
Yeah, and bank robbers can predict that a bank is going to have less cash after a certain day.
This obsession the British have with kids online is so tiresome. You want to stop child sexual assault? Maybe do something about your royalty flying to island getaways organized by a human trafficker and ultra-high-end pimp for underage kids? Or do something about your clergy diddling kids?
Maybe the reason the UK government thinks this is such a big issue is because these legislators and officials are so surrounded by people who do it...because politicians are right there next to clergy in terms of this stuff.
Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'
#230A long, long time ago (within the past ten years), I had to verify my age with a site. They didn't ask for my ID, or my facial scan, but instead asked for my credit card number. They issued a refund to the card of a few cents, and I had to tell them (within 24hr) how much the refund was for, after which point they'd issue a charge to claw it back. They made it clear that debit and gift cards would not be accepted, it…
Credit cards are trivially traceable to your legal identity, since anti-money-laundering and know-your-customer laws require that credit card companies keep this information. The government can subpoena this information just as easily as they could with pictures of your face or ID.
How do you prove the person typing in the credit card details is the same person who owns the card?
I know I've read stories of kids taking cards to purchase games or other things online numerous times over the last 20+ years.