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Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

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Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#221

Post by h0l0cube »

dwighttk wrote: post #195
h0l0cube wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were functionally equivalent, why signal a difference? What's the benefit, you think? I'm not saying that they definitely would signal a difference, but in this hypothetical, if the color difference remained, it would be obvious why.

there's two doors through which the message can leave your phone... the blue door and the green door. (Ignoring the SMS tiny door) If the feature sets of the blue and green door happen to be the same for a time, that doesn't mean a message sent through the green door is "actually" leaving through the blue... The doors are actually different (even if the feature sets are the same (for a time))

We were (originally) talking about a mystical magical timeline where the two standards converge. You can make another hypothetical, where they converge, but only temporarily, but that's a new flavor on the hypothetical that was first posed way way back where the thread started. I'm sick of repeating myself, so I'll leave the musing to those who are more invested.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#222

Post by acdha »

lxgr wrote: post #79
acdha wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple runs servers for managing iMessage key exchange, just like Google’s RCS encryption. Both of them use device attestation to restrict access to those servers to their own apps.

iMessage has nothing to do with RCS, though. I'm also curious how key exchanges will work across operating systems on the latter.

Yes, but it seems unlikely that they wouldn’t reuse as much of that infrastructure as possible to perform the same function for the same users.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#223

Post by acdha »

jeroenhd wrote: post #177
acdha wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protocol is open but key exchange is not: even on Android, third-party messengers can’t interoperate with Google Messages. See page 11 of that PDF.

That's true, but Google has also indicated that they're switching to the GSMA spec which is intended for interoperability. I also doubt that Google would withhold such details from parties like Apple even if they maintained their proprietary format. Small developers would need to reverse engineer the details, unfortunately.

My question is basically whether they open it up or limit it to companies they have deals with. Reverse engineering is a risky game for a service with device checks since that’s potentially a CFAA violation and it could lead to your users getting their hardware banned.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#224

Post by singpolyma3 »

lxgr wrote: post #81
WorldPeas wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems people are, but not anyone with a big name: https://jibe.google.com/partners/messaging-partners/ I'm guessing it's provisioned this way. https://developers.google.com/business-communications/rcs-bu... EDIT: https://github.com/android-rcs/rcsjta

I believe GP's objection is to not being able to access RCS from a non-Google-provided app on Android, not access to the RCS network on the backend side.

Either might be useful but I'm actually more interested in the latter because I run a phone service

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#225

Post by acdha »

g-b-r wrote: post #84
acdha wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only Messages was allowed to support it. At the time it was written, for example, it was years after the Signal developers had asked for basic RCS support (2015) and given up on Google relenting and allowing it in 2018. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/4837

Did you read that issue? It's Moxie that refused to support it

Yes, I followed it when it was open. Which third-party app do you use which supports RCS E2EE?

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#226

Post by nottorp »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #220
madeofpalk wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe this FUD. I think overal the market has moved from from charging for messages. I fully believe carriers would love to rip off everyone as much as they can, but I think carriers know customers would just use facebook messenger if they tried charging per-message.

Carriers charging too much is exactly why WhatsApp became so popular in so many countries. It was optimised for very little data usage, so was dramatically cheaper than SMS.

Don't forget you could also send photos with it, which is more than what can be said about MMS.

Funny enough, I think I was charged once for a MMS in the past 5 years. No idea how I managed to do it, but it seems to still exist and still be charged per message even on my unlimited everything else plan.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#227

Post by acdha »

jeroenhd wrote: post #182
acdha wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only Messages was allowed to support it. At the time it was written, for example, it was years after the Signal developers had asked for basic RCS support (2015) and given up on Google relenting and allowing it in 2018. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/4837

Signal has been rather dismissive of RCS in general. Of course RCS was as insecure and unencrypted as regular SMS/MMS until now, but I haven't found a sign that Signal ever even looked into supporting RCS at all. At this point I think they just wanted to get rid of their SMS backup feature and used RCS as an excuse.

Signal was dismissive of unencrypted messaging. Google used their protocol for their proprietary E2EE system so it’s unlikely that this objection would apply if that system was open.

Put another way, if this was a Signal thing what other Android app is doing this?

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#228

Post by j16sdiz »

jeroenhd wrote: post #191
kstenerud wrote: post #172

Fortunately, this doesn't really affect those of us outside of the USA, since we've long since moved on.

RCS is very popular in India, where E2EE communication with iPhone users is still a nice addition.

WhatsApp is installed on >80% of phone in india.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#229

Post by scarface_74 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #196
lxgr wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it's the norm rather than the exception outside of the US. US operators do things quite a bit differently from the rest of the world; for example, prepaid cards without a monthly fee are not really a thing, i.e. essentially every plan has a monthly fee, but that then almost always includes texting. Outside the US, it's usually possible to receive calls and SMS on a prepaid SIM without paying anything other th…

I believe the distinction that separated the US from the rest of the world is that US carriers charged the recipient of a message, while the rest of the world charged the sender. I don't know if that's true for evrryer carrier or if it's still true today, but it made a major difference. It's also the reason apps threaten you with fees ("this service may cost you money") when all they do is send a verification SMS. Re…

No one pays extra for SMS - sender or receiver. I’m not aware of any carrier in the US that charges.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#230

Post by scarface_74 »

lxgr wrote: post #207
jeroenhd wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the distinction that separated the US from the rest of the world is that US carriers charged the recipient of a message, while the rest of the world charged the sender. I don't know if that's true for evrryer carrier or if it's still true today, but it made a major difference. It's also the reason apps threaten you with fees ("this service may cost you money") when all they do is send a verification SMS. Re…

It’s actually a “shared cost” model, not really “called party pays”, as far as I know. And as far as I understand, this is all downstream of US mobile numbers not having a dedicated prefix identifying them. They have region-specific area codes just like landlines to which calls are physically routed, and from there it’s routed onwards to wherever the mobile phone might be. That could well be a long-distance leg of wh…

US carriers haven’t charged for long distance calls for decades at least for domestic calls.

Besides with number portability, you can keep your same mobile number when you change carriers no matter what the original region was. I’ve had my same number for over 20 years and have changed carriers 5 times.

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