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Wall Street stocks tumble as investors fret over US economic slowdown

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Re: Wall Street stocks tumble as investors fret over US economic slowdown

#221

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Just like the myth of them being the party concerned with responsible government spending. A simple chart of the annual deficit overlain with the party in power makes it clear that reality is the exact opposite and has been for many decades, but they are better at marketing that stuff than the Dems.

Re: Wall Street stocks tumble as investors fret over US economic slowdown

#222
post #207
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Harris also promised to fix it, and had an actual plan for addressing housing, education, medical costs, and prices in general, but we are all now pretending like none of that was a part of her campaign. Part of that is because there were tons of ads focusing on taxpayer funded sex changes for prisoners (funded by pro-Trump orgs): https://youtu.be/kQEMn1yRYVU I have friends and family in Georgia, supposedly a swing…

I mean, sure, if their source of information about her policies is attack ads ran by her opponent, that says more about the media they watch than it does about her. She doesn't control the press, if it won't cover the policies, what is she to do?

> that says more about the media they watch than it does about her

According to my family member who notices such things (and is not MAGA or conservative), Trump controlled most streaming ads/narratives, while Harris had more of the broadcast ads/narratives, especially for sports (minimally political).

I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss this as a media silo issue.

Re: Wall Street stocks tumble as investors fret over US economic slowdown

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do they need to? Messaging and frankly national security.

So the EU needs to hit back for "national security" reasons against the country which has subsidised their security to the tune of tens of trillions. ...yep, makes perfect sense.

Nobody was even considering it a few months ago. I wonder if anything has changed regarding EU security recently?

Re: Wall Street stocks tumble as investors fret over US economic slowdown

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Depends on your definition of 'help,' no kid in school thinks "Gosh I hope I can become a factory laborer when I grow up." The revealed preference suggests you're wrong. That's why the messaging of every politician that has resonated with the working class, from Bernie to Obama to Trump, it's focused on bringing back manufacturing jobs. > The US doesn't need or want factory workers, it wants citizens who are self-a…

> focused on bringing back manufacturing jobs Everyone focuses on bringing them back, because you're correct that it resonates. However, what goes unsaid is that everyone hopes it'll be someone else going to work in those factories. > You can't be a citizen in a participatory democracy if you're not needed. The cognitive elites that call half the country "deplorables" might choose to give you a dole, but they'll hold…

> One person called half of Trump supporters that, referring to an undeniably real subset of that voting block that is racist/homophopic/xenophobic.

According to whose value system? By the standards of your typical knowledge worker, almost everyone in my home country of Bangladesh is “racist/homophobic/sexist.” But why do they get to decide? You can bet that in your hypothetical, the cognitive elite will use their leverage over the government dole to impose their value system on everyone else.

Who is “needed” is not a “value judgment” it’s a structural fact about the economy. In a future where the machines make all the goods, you’ll need cognitive elites to operate and maintain them. But most people won’t be needed. And they’ll never be allowed to be full participants in a democracy—which necessarily includes development of social and moral norms.

Re: Wall Street stocks tumble as investors fret over US economic slowdown

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This analysis is lacking. People didn't vote for Trump because they analyzed his proposed economic policies and decided they would improve their situation. Almost nobody votes like that. There's general financial anxiety in the US, and he promised to fix it. What methods he proposed using are almost irrelevant, it's the rhetoric around them that sways voters. The narrative is now one of temporary hardship to excise t…

You are ignoring how trump focused far more on hurting people they don't like(immigrants , trans people and minorities) than on any actual economic policy. He and the Republicans fomented a hate wave and he rode it right back into the White House. So damn shameful for this country

You're not wrong, but there's more to it than just hate. The tactic is to associate the real problems, economic insecurity, social isolation, etc with groups that are vulnerable to persecution and that people are primed to hate already. Deporting migrants is the proposed solution to economic woes and and a perception of high crime and low trust/alienation. Likewise the queerbashing and trans hate gets associated with the perceived problem of social discohesion and a general lack of control. These associations have been built up over a long time, and those wrapped up in the right wing media sphere view cruelty as both cathartic and effective means to fix what ails society.

Re: Wall Street stocks tumble as investors fret over US economic slowdown

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This analysis is lacking. People didn't vote for Trump because they analyzed his proposed economic policies and decided they would improve their situation. Almost nobody votes like that. There's general financial anxiety in the US, and he promised to fix it. What methods he proposed using are almost irrelevant, it's the rhetoric around them that sways voters. The narrative is now one of temporary hardship to excise t…

It's not enough to have a plan, as a sibling commenter pointed out. Looks more like straight-up irrational team-based tribalism to me. That and ordinary ignorance. How else do you explain a Republican candidate campaigning on raising taxes and winning?

It's not about the concrete details of a plan, it's the feeling, the messaging and the rhetoric. Kamala did not read that the electorate wanted a promise of dramatic action, and ran on competent administration and minor, incremental improvements while largely staying the course. That does not motivate people upset with the status quo to come out and vote.

Re: Wall Street stocks tumble as investors fret over US economic slowdown

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entrepreneurs are supposed to offer domestic versions at their own risk

With how quickly the tariffs are added and removed, if I were an entrepreneur I’d find it difficult to lean in on a risky investment that may be undermined or undercut by the eventual and sudden removal of tariffs. I’m curious how this plays out in reality.

so far, Apple says they'll invest $500bn to bring their supply chain stateside, Softbank $100bn-$200bn, "Stargate" Group is supposed to be $65bn

and that was just to curry favor as well as get in front of the tariff plans

we'll see if they follow through, but those count as American entrepreneurs too

if there are disruptions on smaller scales, some people will take the risk, and there will be winners and losers as with everything else.

Re: Wall Street stocks tumble as investors fret over US economic slowdown

#228

It'll be wild to see how Congress responds.

It's commonly said Presidents get 100 days in office to enact the bulk of their platform. It's an approximation, of course, but it's about then that the new-to-office approval rating bump starts to wane and Congress starts gearing up for midterms. We're about half way there. If the economy is in bad shape in May, I would not be surprised if Congress intervenes on tariffs. The fear of being primaried by MAGA loyalists…

Congress already made their bed with the cuts to medaid in order to fund capital tax cuts. I wouldn't be surprised if Florida completely flips next month unless the senators wake up.

Re: Wall Street stocks tumble as investors fret over US economic slowdown

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's commonly said Presidents get 100 days in office to enact the bulk of their platform. It's an approximation, of course, but it's about then that the new-to-office approval rating bump starts to wane and Congress starts gearing up for midterms. We're about half way there. If the economy is in bad shape in May, I would not be surprised if Congress intervenes on tariffs. The fear of being primaried by MAGA loyalists…

> Congress intervenes on tariffs the tariffs on Canada/Mexico haven't gone into effect yet and Trump may yet again change his mind or end up keeping it restricted to a few select industries (i.e. steel) who are clamoring for it (my guess is the latter) As for China, I think many in Congress from both parties are supportive of them, so I would expect those to stay

They certainly have gone into effect. They've been paused on USMCA covered goods, but that's only 1/3rd of the goods from Canada and 1/2 from Mexico.

Re: Wall Street stocks tumble as investors fret over US economic slowdown

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> focused on bringing back manufacturing jobs Everyone focuses on bringing them back, because you're correct that it resonates. However, what goes unsaid is that everyone hopes it'll be someone else going to work in those factories. > You can't be a citizen in a participatory democracy if you're not needed. The cognitive elites that call half the country "deplorables" might choose to give you a dole, but they'll hold…

> One person called half of Trump supporters that, referring to an undeniably real subset of that voting block that is racist/homophopic/xenophobic. According to whose value system? By the standards of your typical knowledge worker, almost everyone in my home country of Bangladesh is “racist/homophobic/sexist.” But why do they get to decide? You can bet that in your hypothetical, the cognitive elite will use their le…

> And they’ll never be allowed to be full participants in a democracy

This is what the elites often assert before the mobs with guillotines, torches, pitchforks, etc come for them.

Who gets to decide who is a participant? Ultimately it's the group that seizes power. You might think that a tiny group of despotic people can hold out against the overwhelming majority (South Africans sure tried, and some are still bitter that they failed at it) forever, but this type of thing never lasts, fortunately.

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