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Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

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Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#221

Post by suraci »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #218
suraci wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the moment the war is already lost the war against whom?

Let's make a thought exercise: Imagine Europe must, for some reason,s impose duties on anything from China. Like Europe says, 'Hey, you're burning too much coal, I will stop your cars with my tariffs.' China says, 'Okay, I will put duties on the parts, chips and batteries you're buying from me.' Now, Europe won't be able to produce any cars anymore. We've seen this already when COVID-19 stopped car production in the…

I was not challenging your conclusion, just not sure it's against China or the USA, both possible, right?

as for the thought exercise...

I have to say that the only way for the EU to be 'independent' is for it to be sanctioned by either China or the US.

For example, since 2000, China has attempted to develop its domestic chip industry with hundreds of billions of dollars, but this effort never materialized until chip sanctions were imposed under the Trump and Biden administrations

btw, i don't think this will come true:

> China says, 'Okay, I will put duties on the parts, chips and batteries you're buying from me.'

it's very unlikely that China will actively limit export for products, it harms more to China itself, it's more possible to limit export for resources like rare metals

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#222

Post by omnimus »

matt-p wrote: post #116
omnimus wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturing the processor itself is different issue from what architecture that processor will be. If Europe produces any consumer processors like that it wont be x86. It will be Risc-V (maybe arm? its UK but owned by Softbank so nope)

Just because SoftBank own it now, do you really think if Europe went to it and said "can we buy half, if so we'll buy $X amount of licences otherwise we'll start (effectively) a serious competitor in risc-v.

Again why to fight for ARM where Softbank will want a huge payoff. When you can instead put this money into RISC-V. I guess i am comming from viewpoint that what EU really needs are independent chips that don't have to be the most cutting edge. I think performance few years behind is fine for majority of needs and that would make europe much more independent. So chips for AI no but for everything else it would be a great start.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#223

Post by Y_Y »

tsukikage wrote: post #219
Y_Y wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU was established in 1993. Arm was founded in 1990. For that matter the UK is composed of islands and parts thereof and nothing in "continental Europe", a term which refers to just the contiguous landmass. (Gibraltar is owned by the UK, but not part of it.) Luckily Europe is not defined by the EU or sea levels, and the UK is very much in Europe the continent.

Technically true, which as we all know is the best kind of true. Note, however: “The United Kingdom (along with the British Overseas Territory of Gibraltar) was a member state of the European Union (EU) and of its predecessor the European Communities (EC) – principally the European Economic Community (EEC) – from 1 January 1973 until 31 January 2020.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_membership_of_t... Co…

Your attention to detail is admirable. I feel like if we allow in the EEC we should also give recognition to Acorn of Acorn RISC Machines which was founded in 1978. So really OP should have asked,

"Was Acorn founded in part of a decendant of the European Coal and Steel Community, notwithstanding certain (disputed) conditions of the Treaty of Utrecht (1713)?”

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#224

Post by dumbledoren »

tw04 wrote: post #118
throwaway888abc wrote: post #8

China recently moved that direction. That would be nice collaboration to see between EU and China. China to publish policy to boost RISC-V chip use nationwide, sources say https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-publish-policy-boos...

If you ignore the military ambitions of China and the fact they’re openly sharing technology with Russia, perhaps. I don’t see anything but regret for Europe several decades from now if they decide to start providing China with the technical expertise they’re currently lacking in this space. This is all about China trying to find a way to escape the pressure of sanctions from Europe and the US.

The military 'ambitions' of China exist only because the military ambitions of the US exist.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#225

Post by 3836293648 »

turtletontine wrote: post #38
3836293648 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And non-Apple Silicon is British?

ARM Holdings is British. Anyone making ARM cores (Apple, Qualcomm, Amazon’s Graviton…) is paying licensing fees to a British company. Arm even tried to cancel Qualcomm’s licensing agreement back in the fall. Using RISC V entirely circumvents not only royalty payments, but legal battles like that (frivolous or not).

And ARM makes reference designs which most ARM chips just use.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#226

Post by tsukikage »

Y_Y wrote: post #223
tsukikage wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically true, which as we all know is the best kind of true. Note, however: “The United Kingdom (along with the British Overseas Territory of Gibraltar) was a member state of the European Union (EU) and of its predecessor the European Communities (EC) – principally the European Economic Community (EEC) – from 1 January 1973 until 31 January 2020.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_membership_of_t... Co…

Your attention to detail is admirable. I feel like if we allow in the EEC we should also give recognition to Acorn of Acorn RISC Machines which was founded in 1978. So really OP should have asked, "Was Acorn founded in part of a decendant of the European Coal and Steel Community, notwithstanding certain (disputed) conditions of the Treaty of Utrecht (1713)?”

If people start being pedantic, I feel responding in kind is entirely fair.

TBH I'm still not quite understanding why people feel it is so important to clarify that Britain is only in Europe geographically; but I wonder, does it make a difference that Hermann Hauser is actually Austrian? ;)

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#227

Post by Y_Y »

tsukikage wrote: post #226
Y_Y wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your attention to detail is admirable. I feel like if we allow in the EEC we should also give recognition to Acorn of Acorn RISC Machines which was founded in 1978. So really OP should have asked, "Was Acorn founded in part of a decendant of the European Coal and Steel Community, notwithstanding certain (disputed) conditions of the Treaty of Utrecht (1713)?”

If people start being pedantic, I feel responding in kind is entirely fair. TBH I'm still not quite understanding why people feel it is so important to clarify that Britain is only in Europe geographically; but I wonder, does it make a difference that Hermann Hauser is actually Austrian? ;)

You've just blown this whole case wide open!

(I'm really not interested in squabbles about national identity and EU membership, but I do think it's fun to examine claims carefully, especially when it undermines ideological talking points.)

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#228

Post by hagbard_c »

suraci wrote: post #203
hagbard_c wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most authoritarian states are 'stable and predictable'. When you meet a lion on the savannah the beast is stable and predictable in that it will most likely try to eat you unless it isn't hungry. Step on a snake and the outcome is stable and predictable in that you will get bitten. It is good for Europe to learn to stand on its - our - own legs, to become less dependent on the USA for territorial defence and probably…

> So, 'Europe first' in the sense that the ideas which formed the continent are worth defending and so are people who subscribe to those ideas no matter where they come from. Those who want to get rid of these ideas to replace them with their own intolerant society - whether that be an islamic caliphate or a Chinese-style fascist [1] surveillance state - are not welcome. I realise this includes a number of EU bureauc…

Some explanation would make your point clearer. What did you mean when you combined - or juxtaposed? - these two segments from my earlier reply?

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#229

Post by Yoric »

sashank_1509 wrote: post #150
Yoric wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to assume that you're speaking of monarchies in which the monarch is the actual ruler, rather than UK, Belgium, the Netherlands or Canada for instance, right? In that case, I'd say that a monarchy is essentially dictatorship + a (usually) clear line of succession.

Fair enough, yes I mean monarchies proper, where the government is actually monarchical, not a ceremonial monarch. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Thailand, Bhutan might be the only monarchies left. (Monarchy + clear form of succession).

There's a little fear in France, because the head of the far right party is the daughter of the former head, and the aunt of the rising star. Since that party seems not unlikely to win the next Presidential elections, we might end up with a monarchy in France.

Hurray us.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#230

Post by Paianni »

acdha wrote: post #167
wg0 wrote: post #81

It rather should be for general computing too starting with government office computers. Yeah they'll be slow but nothing can be slower than an x86 loaded with a Windows 11 or something on it.

Also, even a 10 year old x86 system is fine for web browsing and office tasks. If RISC-V hit that level, it’d be fine for many millions of people.

I discovered recently that a Raspberry Pi 5 would be faster than both my sister's and parents' PCs. Just a shame that all cheap ARM boards need proprietary kernels.
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