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JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#221

Post by bayindirh »

RockRobotRock wrote: post #207
bayindirh wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately many new developers don't believe in powerful "power" tools anymore. They like to connect many small tools for an inferior experience and they just scoff at bigger tools for being "too complicated". I use another big tool which is around 20 years old, and that can do everything and a ton more from a single screen at the same speed or faster, with greater integration. Yet people don't touch it because it…

I feel like I "earned" the right to use big ugly IDE after learning the underlying complexity the hard way, but that's only for one language. Jumping into a new language with JetBrains is the difference between me spending 2 hours figuring out a codebase and submitting a PR, and me spending 2 hours fucking around trying to fix things.

An IDE generally adds another complexity layer, esp. if you’re not experienced in the language, that’s true. Maybe the reason I didn’t feel that was the gradual ramp up in using the IDE, and starting to play with a language in the terminal first.

I still don’t use an IDE for projects up to a certain size, but after a certain point, being able to also store all the nitty gritty bits about a project (building, profiles, environment, flags, etc.) in a project saves more time than it requires to set them up.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#222

Post by bayindirh »

Nullabillity wrote: post #210
bayindirh wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the question. The question was "you can change the toolbars and shortcuts in JetBrains Rider, no?" I presume the answer is yes, from what you said. Then it becomes less of an issue, if not an non-issue. IDEs and code editors are tools which we live with for a long time. Nobody expects their defaults to be unchanged. Otherwise we'd be all using notepad.exe for coding. Not having the defaults organized by yo…

An IDE's literal whole selling point is supposedly being a packaged product that you can just pick up and run with, at the price of not being particularly good at any of the things it does (and usually being pretty expensive). If you still need to customize everything then, well, what did you actually gain over assembling your environment by yourself from actually competent pieces?

I don’t think so, because the IDE doesn’t carry the language tooling with it, but interfaces with the tooling you already have in place.

That said, every IDE is opinionated about workflows, and if you’re open to adapt to that, the defaults makes sense. Otherwise you slowly hammer it to the shape you want.

For me an IDEs greatest selling point or the infinite flexibility it provides.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#223

Post by oweiler »

codingwagie wrote: post #17

Personal opinion is that JetBrains products have gone down hill the last few years. Tons of memory leaks and performance issues. They are also way behind on the AI front, borderline obsolete in some areas. This is coming from someone who has used jetbrains daily for over a decade

Performance is one problem, but much worse are the countless bugs which plague the last releases.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#224

Post by Macha »

pjmlp wrote: post #98
malkia wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there was no C++ (ahem native) debugger in IDEA... but I'll check again, could be wrong really...

Meanwhile Eclipse and Netbeans have been supporting mixed language development, and JNI debugging, for the last two decades.

IntelliJ has supported this for over a decade also, and having used Eclipse for PHP a decade ago, I think it's very generous to say that that was actually supporting non-Java languages as an IDE, rather than just a very slow and heavyweight text editor. I'd say Eclipse's weakness for Python, PHP, etc. at that time led to how long IDE-skepticism has been a thing.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#225

Post by sfn42 »

mike_hearn wrote: post #214
toprerules wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like your perception of how a computer works is incredibly flawed. ram doesn't sit unused , the kernel uses it for caching and locality. The more RAM you give the kernel, the more you can have resident in the slab cache, the page cache, the filesystem cache, the network backlog, etc. Even on very large machines with more RAM than an average desktop, the kernel can still make use of almost all of it. I work…

You're both right. The issue here is that both the JVM and the kernel use algorithms that can use all your RAM to speed things up, and there's no good way to know which side should 'win' (to get the best performance). Historically the JVM will happily use all your RAM even if it doesn't need to, because that reduces the amount of GC work required which increases CPU time available to the IDE for analysis and other ta…

I use Rider for .Net and WebStorm for JS. Before I left work I checked, with our small/medium sized project each of them were using a little under 2gb according to windows Task Manager. Adding in some other related processes I'd estimate the two combined might be using 5-6gb in total. So I have at least 26gb left over.

To quote Lord Farquaad: That is a sacrifice I am willing to make

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#226

Post by vinayan3 »

solardev wrote: post #114
vinayan3 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been hoping that Fleet would emerge as a true multi language IDE. I code in GoLang and Python regularly. I currently have the Python plugin in Goland which is not the professional plugin. If I want them I have to use a different IDE and switching back and forth is a pain. Also, with a rewrite I've hoped that remote development will be less buggy than it currently is with Goland. It's laggy too and you see weird…

Can you not use IntelliJ IDEA (the Java one) with the Python and Go plugins?

Yes I tried this for awhile but I hit some very odd issue with the bazel plugin and the codebase I work on. It went away when I switched to Goland.

I haven't tried again to see if newer versions have fixed the issue.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#227

Post by Kuinox »

MissTake wrote: post #204
Kuinox wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you say are words not facts too. It's your opinion, wrong but still your opinion.

I’m simply stating that for something to be objective it has to be an absolute irrefutable fact. Anything else is subjective. A UI can never be objectively bad because it is based upon how someone sees it. For me, Gimp has a subjectivity bad UI because I’ve never been able to get my head around it. Other people find it’s perfect and that it’s really easy to use. Both statements are subjective. “Objective” and “subjec…

I suggest you to read some research on UX so you can understand that a big part of UX is in fact, not subjective. Like poor contrast cause reading fatigue on all humans, but at varying level. And that researchers determined a contrast ratio at which a certain percentage of the population can read without problems. And yes that's a recommendation because they can't force you to do it, so they recommand you to do it.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#228

Post by vips7L »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #70
vips7L wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern language landscape has not backed away from checked errors. Rust is praised for its checked errors, countless posts on this forum praise Result in multiple languages. Swift has checked errors and Kotlin is implementing them via union types in the near future. Checked errors, via results or exceptions have never been the problem. It has always been Java the language that hasn't provided the syntax sugar for…

Looks like a huge difference to me. The first function throws an error. The second function may not even return an error.

The first function may not return an error either.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#229

Post by pjmlp »

Macha wrote: post #224
pjmlp wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile Eclipse and Netbeans have been supporting mixed language development, and JNI debugging, for the last two decades.

IntelliJ has supported this for over a decade also, and having used Eclipse for PHP a decade ago, I think it's very generous to say that that was actually supporting non-Java languages as an IDE, rather than just a very slow and heavyweight text editor. I'd say Eclipse's weakness for Python, PHP, etc. at that time led to how long IDE-skepticism has been a thing.

No it wasn't, you have to have IntelliJ and Clion to debug JNI, and there are no plans on the roadmap to ever do otherwise.

In fact, the JNI tooling support on Android Studio is a custom implementation done by Android team themselves.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#230

Post by graypegg »

phreack wrote: post #166
graypegg wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question, what are you missing from the old UI? I am still maybe not a “fan” of the new UI, but I’ve since gotten pretty proficient with it and I genuinely can’t think of anything that’s impeding me. I think the general information density dropped somewhat, but a lot of the old UI was noise. I don’t need a big file path taking up 60% of the top toolbar. Nor a default Jetbrains space logo just sitting there. W…

Honestly the hieroglyphic buttons are a deal breaker for me. It's just a cognitive load I can't overcome without frustration. The vertical labels were just perfect and Jetbrains actively ignores feedback on that. On a second place, not having bottom toolbars anymore is such a downgrade! I would use it to have a convenient console at hand constantly. I did use the Git buttons constantly, and now it's either hard or im…

The bottom toolbar... is something I didn't consider actually. Also agree with you on that. That removed a whole layout option. (Split bottom left/right, OR open a wide bottom pane. Now all panes need to be splits.)
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