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Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

itvision.altervista.org

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Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#221

Post by ben-schaaf »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #171
do_not_redeem wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> knowing that if I build an app and it probably won’t work in 5 years Would you say MacOS, Android, and iPhone are also hobbyist toys then? And by the way, if you statically compile your app for Linux it will basically work forever. Linus's mantra: We Do Not Break Userspace. These are userland problems and can all be avoided with a linker flag if it's a priority for you.

A statically compiled app that used Xorg won’t run on many Linux distributions at the moment. A statically compiled app that used Jack for audio might have problems running on PipeWire. A statically compiled app from 2012 that used PolicyKit for authorization might not work today when asking for sudo. Everyone’s moved on to polkit. The meme is wrong, don’t regurgitate nonsense. I can guarantee you my Windows app comp…

> A statically compiled app that used Xorg won’t run on many Linux distributions at the moment.

Not a single major distribution doesn't ship Xwayland by default. The entire gaming community relies on X11 continuing to work, just like they rely on x86 libraries to stick around.

> A statically compiled app that used Jack for audio might have problems running on PipeWire.

A statically compiled app that uses Jack for audio might have problems running on Pulseaudio/ALSA/OSS. Jack's never a thing that's generally available, so claiming it's a backwards compatibility issue is nonsense. If your application requires Jack, then you need to ship it.

Note that you'll also have issues on Windows and Mac because Jack - unsurprisingly - is not installed by default on those platforms either.

> A statically compiled app from 2012 that used PolicyKit for authorization might not work today when asking for sudo. Everyone’s moved on to polkit.

If you used policykit correctly you should have either used the dbus protocol, or the command line utilities. These are the APIs for userspace and they haven't changed since 2012.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#222

Post by itvision »

em-bee wrote: post #158
scarface_74 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other question is why should any normal person want to run Linux as their primary OS except for philosophical reasons? I was forced to use Windows for a year as a developer. I threw WSL2 on it and it was fine . I installed Docker desktop for Windows and it worked fine for Linux. But especially on the Mac, while I have to download updated commands, it is genuinely certified UNIX. On both Macs and Windows I also ge…

The other question is why should any normal person want to run Linux as their primary OS except for philosophical reasons? it's free. it's stable. it's easier to use. it doesn't have adds. it uses less resources. it runs on older hardware. it doesn't contain spyware. it doesn't violate my privacy. it includes more powerful features. it offers more alternatives for the GUI. i can trust it because the kernel has been a…

> it's free.

Over the last 25 years I've spent hundreds of hours fighting with its bugs. Not free by a long shot.

> it's stable.

Anything but.

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues

> it's easier to use.

You must be joking right? A step in any direction and you must use CLI.

> it doesn't have adds.

Windows neither has "adds".

> it uses less resources.

Proofs required.

> it runs on older hardware.

Good luck using Firefox or Chrome on "older hardware". Good luck watching videos on older hardware that lacks HW H.265/VP9 decoding. Older hardware for what? For NAS? Why would you need desktop Linux on it?

> it doesn't contain spyware.

Prove that Windows spies on you. And also, Windows is used by NSA/CIA/FBI and pretty much all governments of the world some of which are openly hostile to the US. So much for "spyware".

> it doesn't violate my privacy.

See earlier.

> it includes more powerful features.

Examples or bust.

> it offers more alternatives for the GUI.

Windows has had CLI for aeons and now not just one but many including Bash (WSL).

> i can trust it because the kernel has been audited.

That's an abject lie.

> it is way easier to configure to my personal preferences.

And Windows doesn't need configuration as it just works.

> it allows me to replace or remove any application that i don't like.

What would you like to replace in Windows that's not "replaceable"? Examples or bust.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#223

Post by RajT88 »

dismalaf wrote: post #149

Here's how you have a good experience: Use one of the following: - Fedora - Fedora Silverblue - Ubuntu - openSuse Aeon or Micro Leap Next, don't modify anything. Use the DE it comes with, never open the terminal, treat it like it's MacOS or Windows and you're your grandma. Then you'll have a good, solid desktop. The problem people have is using hobbyist distros like Mint, some flavour of Arch that's just a buggier Ar…

Now - I'm not super deep in Linux. I get to tinkering with it every few years since College.

Early on, you had a lot of weird config stuff and cryptic error messages you had to figure out to get it up and running normally. Then it was OK until something weird happened. The chances of something weird happening go wayyy up if you don't heed your advice:

> Next, don't modify anything. Use the DE it comes with, never open the terminal, treat it like it's MacOS or Windows and you're your grandma. Then you'll have a good, solid desktop.

But even so - occasionally, weird stuff will happen. Just like it happens on any OS over time, the farther you get from a clean install. Software Entropy, if you will. May god have mercy on your layman's soul if that is the case.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#224

Post by itvision »

jmclnx wrote: post #32

When I see the articles I believe the title should be "Linux is not Windows so I do not like it". I have used Linux for just shy of 30 years. It is different than Windows and far more powerful. It is just that people do not want to learn different things. Plus Linux has no spyware. These days, you can do anything on Linux that you do on Windows, except for some 3d Gaming. And that is because hardware vendors refuse t…

> When I see the articles I believe the title should be "Linux is not Windows so I do not like it".

I've used Linux for as much only I'm a tad more humble. Mentioned more than a dozen times in the kernel git log. Not a big achievement but kinda shows I'm not just a bystander.

You've never said how much time you've wasted fixing Linux or making software work. Must be a non-issue I guess.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#225

Post by itvision »

ChrisArchitect wrote: post #134

Some discussions on previous iterations: 2022: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33951719 2021: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28960330 2020: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23368115 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19241394 2016: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10812214

The article has been rewritten from scratch and made a lot shorter and accessible for the non-techies.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#226

Post by desumeku »

scarface_74 wrote: post #201
desumeku wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$699, which can buy you approximately 7 used laptops that are worthwhile daily drivers when set up with Linux. You sound like a shill.

Exactly what are the specs of this $100 laptop? Am I then going to carry around 7 laptops so I can get 14 hours of battery life? Am I going to run a cluster of them when I need to do something worthwhile with them? What exactly do you do “daily” with a $100 laptop? From your past comments, I’m assuming you are developer, are you really using a $100 computer?

I'm currently posting from a Dell Inspiron 3505 which has an 8-core AMD CPU and 6gb of ram. I got it new for roughly $300 and from quickly looking on ebay can be had for under $200 used.

I'm waiting on the mail for a $70 Chromebook with 8gb of ram and a 2-core/4-thread CPU to replace this laptop because of a half-damaged charging port. I picked a Chromebook for the 10+ hour battery life, the same reason you chose a Macbook that costs 10x as much.

I use a terminal text editor to write code and I use a web browser for everything else. If it wasn't for browsers being so bloated and desktop applications made with electron, I would be happy to settle with a laptop that had even just 4gb of ram.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#227

Post by itvision »

leonixyz wrote: post #11

Thank you for keeping people away from Linux with these kind of opinions. It makes my life as a Linux software engineer much more profitable.

Desktop Linux market share speaks for itself. It's basically 0 or close to 0.

I know I know it's been around 2 or even 3%. It's laughable. And 99% of its users are hackers (programmers/developers/engineers/scientists/etc).

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#229

Post by graemep »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #108
graemep wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you start installing software and drivers, the OS gets totalled I have been using multiple Linux distros for over 20 years (and supporting other people) and this has simply never happened to me. Not even since I started using a distro that is supposedly less stable (Manjaro). > Forcing a user to compile C code is a bad user experience That is why very few distros expect users to do it. Are you thinking of Gent…

> supposedly less stable (Manjaro). It's not supposedly, a "rolling distro" can't be stable because it has no stable ABI (upgrading a few dependencies is enough to change the ABI exposed to applications). When your compiled binaries work one moment and then don't work after a system update, that's considered unstable and is one of the reasons people pay Red Hat to support old Linux versions for 20 years. Some people…

I think stable means both. I actually meant it in the second sense - Manjaro is significantly more likely to go wrong in ways that require fixing.

I should have used a less ambiguous term in this context though.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#230

Post by itvision »

LeFantome wrote: post #178

Linux has a stable API for gaming now and there are many AAA games available that target it. It is the Win32 API and DirectX. There is even kernel level support for some of it now.

> It is the Win32 API and DirectX.

Linux is great at emulating something. Yeah.

Mind the word "native" though.

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