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Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

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Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#221

Post by pas »

grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #212
dlisboa wrote: post #71

Coming from a Latin American the idea of re-starting your life across the country for college and then again for work (multiple times sometimes) while away from family and friends is very foreign. A lot of the conversation around modern American youth feeling isolated, lacking socialization and not building strong relationships seems that stem from this drive. Another thing that’s really weird and related is another…

In Anglo cultures kids aren't usually moving away from home until they are at least ~18 years old. This is not a factor in teenagers feeling isolated. Suburbia and the decline of third places probably play a far greater role in this demographic. It's a common trope on here to lament on how the Anglo cultures don't value family ties strongly enough. I'd argue not overly valuing family ties has been a big competitive a…

So, people moving away is not new and not surprising, and happens all over the world, it's basically the main driver of urbanization. What's new was (rich) people moving "back" (to suburbs for the American Dream, and nowadays to have kids).

Though it's better than what used to happen - which was lots of kids, and high infant mortality, plus poverty driving kids to find jobs in cities, where bad living conditions and factory work awaited them. (And in the 20th century company towns around mines and factories.)

People growing up, flying out of the family nest, and finding friends was a normal part of late teenage years. What's new on top of that is more people are trying to do it again in their 20s after higher education, and again after settling down to have kids, and ...

The good news is that we have the social technology of ... affordable safe high density cities, with parks and high-rises (plus the obligatory blackjack and hookers too!) ... where people can be next to their new and old friends at the same time ... oh my!

Also https://asteriskmag.com/issues/08/the-myth-of-the-loneliness...

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#222

Post by amonith »

james-bcn wrote: post #194
extr wrote: post #46

I go back and forth on this. I still keep in touch with a bunch of high school and college friends. For better or worse those guys know "the real me" and the history and relationships are impossible to replace. They all still live close together but I live far away - I only see them once or twice a year, if that (less right now because we're all in the "very young kids" stage). I miss them. On the other hand, when I…

Do you think the "you" at highschool and college was "the real you"? Because that is definitely not the case for me. You grow older, you learn, you change views, you mature...

Exactly, this is the "peaked in high school" stereotype and it's not good.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#223

Post by pas »

seizethecheese wrote: post #157
dlisboa wrote: post #71

Coming from a Latin American the idea of re-starting your life across the country for college and then again for work (multiple times sometimes) while away from family and friends is very foreign. A lot of the conversation around modern American youth feeling isolated, lacking socialization and not building strong relationships seems that stem from this drive. Another thing that’s really weird and related is another…

80% of Americans live near where they were born. This isn’t the root cause of estrangement.

Also worth considering that social phenomena is hard to measure.

https://asteriskmag.com/issues/08/the-myth-of-the-loneliness...

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#224

Post by [deleted] »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #72
extr wrote: post #46

I go back and forth on this. I still keep in touch with a bunch of high school and college friends. For better or worse those guys know "the real me" and the history and relationships are impossible to replace. They all still live close together but I live far away - I only see them once or twice a year, if that (less right now because we're all in the "very young kids" stage). I miss them. On the other hand, when I…

Move back, force your wife to only interact with your dudes’ wives. Shed individuality, kick back beers with the boyz. Reminisce only about the good old days. Bond over ritualized sports. Start families in sync so kids can be raised together. Forge new shared traditions, establish a rules based order of discipline and brotherhood. Protect the offspring from outsiders. To do this establish dominance over other familie…

[deleted]

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#225

Post by pas »

nobodywillobsrv wrote: post #191
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Move back, force your wife to only interact with your dudes’ wives. Shed individuality, kick back beers with the boyz. Reminisce only about the good old days. Bond over ritualized sports. Start families in sync so kids can be raised together. Forge new shared traditions, establish a rules based order of discipline and brotherhood. Protect the offspring from outsiders. To do this establish dominance over other familie…

This is great. I can almost imagine a two timeline movie of this. Really hits home.

What do you mean two timelines? The movie is about the daywalker, who goes on 2-3 week long business trips every few weeks and ...

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#226

Post by grumpy-de-sre »

pas wrote: post #221
grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Anglo cultures kids aren't usually moving away from home until they are at least ~18 years old. This is not a factor in teenagers feeling isolated. Suburbia and the decline of third places probably play a far greater role in this demographic. It's a common trope on here to lament on how the Anglo cultures don't value family ties strongly enough. I'd argue not overly valuing family ties has been a big competitive a…

So, people moving away is not new and not surprising, and happens all over the world, it's basically the main driver of urbanization. What's new was (rich) people moving "back" (to suburbs for the American Dream, and nowadays to have kids). Though it's better than what used to happen - which was lots of kids, and high infant mortality, plus poverty driving kids to find jobs in cities, where bad living conditions and…

It's easy to blame the decline of organized religion, but it curiously coincides with the same time-frame in which the car was invented and modern suburbia sprung up. Having to move to allow for a family is definitely a new and worrying phenomenon.

My gut feel is that having to maintain close family ties and living with parents until adulthood are an adaption to poverty, poor social mobility, and low trust society. People will rationalize it but given opportunity they'll act in the exact same way as the rest of us (just look at urbanization in China).

Thanks for the article, wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the loneliness epidemic is a statistical artifact of bad data.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#227

Post by pjerem »

DragonStrength wrote: post #215
dlisboa wrote: post #71

Coming from a Latin American the idea of re-starting your life across the country for college and then again for work (multiple times sometimes) while away from family and friends is very foreign. A lot of the conversation around modern American youth feeling isolated, lacking socialization and not building strong relationships seems that stem from this drive. Another thing that’s really weird and related is another…

From an American's perspective, given how much Latin American migrant inflow we have, it'd be easy for us to say the same about Latin American cultures and not imagining how we could leave everything behind. Perhaps people's choices don't always reflect their desires and instead reflect the economic realities around them. "Getting out" is viewed as success where I was from because "staying behind" meant a worse life…

100% of Latin Americans you see are migrants because, well, you are in the US. You are only seeing exceptions.

The immense majority of Latin American don’t live in the US neither migrate there.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#228

Post by bluepizza »

DragonStrength wrote: post #215
dlisboa wrote: post #71

Coming from a Latin American the idea of re-starting your life across the country for college and then again for work (multiple times sometimes) while away from family and friends is very foreign. A lot of the conversation around modern American youth feeling isolated, lacking socialization and not building strong relationships seems that stem from this drive. Another thing that’s really weird and related is another…

From an American's perspective, given how much Latin American migrant inflow we have, it'd be easy for us to say the same about Latin American cultures and not imagining how we could leave everything behind. Perhaps people's choices don't always reflect their desires and instead reflect the economic realities around them. "Getting out" is viewed as success where I was from because "staying behind" meant a worse life…

We tend to be pushed towards immigration because of a lack of safety, of growth opportunities, and no hope that things will get any better.

With that in mind, if Latin America had safety, I suspect at least half of the immigrants wouldn't leave, especially the ones who are able to hold a middle class job.

Most of us would live in a lower standard of life if it allowed to stay close to friends and family. But not being able to walk down the street bears a heavy weight on our anxieties.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#229

Post by theGnuMe »

davkan wrote: post #189
philosopher1234 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not possible for it to exist in any text based forum because it depends on: * body language, non verbal communication * the ability to respond instantly * the ability to interrupt * the ability do develop relationships over time Which do not exist altogether anywhere on the internet

It sounds to me like you’re just describing the limitations of textual communication, which I agree is limited in all the ways you have written in this post except the last. But, it’s entirely possible to have thoughtful, deep, honest discussions with individuals over a textual medium and to develop meaningful relationships in that way. I have done so. Often these relationships start in a more open public setting and…

Or you know, video conference. I have zoom calls with AI folks from all the world weekly.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#230

Post by dsign »

grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #212
dlisboa wrote: post #71

Coming from a Latin American the idea of re-starting your life across the country for college and then again for work (multiple times sometimes) while away from family and friends is very foreign. A lot of the conversation around modern American youth feeling isolated, lacking socialization and not building strong relationships seems that stem from this drive. Another thing that’s really weird and related is another…

In Anglo cultures kids aren't usually moving away from home until they are at least ~18 years old. This is not a factor in teenagers feeling isolated. Suburbia and the decline of third places probably play a far greater role in this demographic. It's a common trope on here to lament on how the Anglo cultures don't value family ties strongly enough. I'd argue not overly valuing family ties has been a big competitive a…

> What really needs to happen is we need to figure out ways of facilitating friend formation/maintenance in this brave new world of the internet and atheism. We are going to need some new social technologies to really combat this.

I wonder how in your opinion atheism enters in the picture? My first guess (of your reference) is that certain religions frighten people into remaining in a marriage they would otherwise not be in. My second guess is that religion fills a social glue role by virtue of getting people together to worship or do other community things.

In my own opinion, part of the problem is that we are not atheist enough, and we still believe in the god-mandated union of a man and a woman, properly enclosed by walls, to bring forth children, as the only way worth living. Yes, there are pockets of resistance to the idea, but too little and too late. By far and large all parents out there are pressing their children to marry and have kids, so that there are grandchildren to fill those golden years. And there is mass media of course, which by far and large does the same. But I suspect that, left to their own devices, a lot of young people may choose to stick to their childhood friends of their same sex or otherwise, and employ one of the myriad ways humans can achieve sexual fulfillment. And since I'm on the topic, our species had sex for bonding long before it had religion, language, and the Internet. It's a pity that after the agricultural revolution and the newly found greed for land, God declared that technology suitable only for establishing property rights and for growing the military might of the tribe.

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