Earlier quoted context omitted.
A neat analogy but aren't those 1s actually distinct from each other in your religion?
Is there more than one way to reference the same truth?
Maybe, does the Trimurti represent that same truth?
Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps
221–230 of 310 posts
Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the more interesting developments occurred after the fall of the western Roman empire. The eastern empire (Constantinople) had frequent arguments and disputes with the west over nearly everything, including Christianity. The eastern Orthodox church refers to itself as the "Catholic Church" in internal documents. After the west fell in 476, they continued to present themselves as "the" Catholic church, which w…
> The eastern Orthodox church refers to itself as the "Catholic Church" in internal documents. After the west fell in 476, they continued to present themselves as "the" Catholic church... Is that really so odd? Doesn't "catholic" mean something like "universal," and I think it would be very odd for one faction of a split organization to cede that kind of title to its rival faction. I might be misunderstanding your po…
It’s frequently explained to mean “universal” but my growing understanding of it is that it means that the wholeness of the faith exists at the local level, meaning that it does not have a dependency on some remote administrator in order to provide the Sacraments, etc.
This became an important point for the survival of Orthodoxy during the Arian crisis.
Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even today plenty of Christian sects refuse to recognize the council of Nicaea's interpretation of the trinity, including the Mormons and the Jehovah's witnesses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism (Whether or not any of these flirt with polytheism is up for debate.) Meanwhile, the Catholic church's own profusion of saints whom you are supposed to beseech for specific blessings is dangerously close to a…
As an Atheist (formally Orthodox), I think I can adjudicate this. The problem with the First Council of Nicaea was that it was decided wrong. The whole "there are three gods, but only one god" is inherently confusing. There's a reason why Arianism keeps recurring over and over again. All the new nations who have been introduced to this aspect of Christianity find it bizarre. If the decision would have been more along…
> The whole "there are three gods, but only one god" is inherently confusing.
I imagine it would be. But that's not what the council of Nicaea decided, nor what Christians believe. It's further developed in the Athanasian creed that the Trinity is understood as one God (homoousios - same substance), but three persons. Whether or not the philosophy of consubstantiation is that useful to modern believers is another issue; attempts to reformulate the doctrine (like "there are three gods, but only one god") usually end in heterodoxy, or at least misunderstanding.
Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not "evidence". The bible mentions Babylon and Babylon existed, but the bible mentioning Babylon is no evidence of Babylon's existence. In this sentence, I'm mentioning the Sun, and it exists, but I provide no evidence whatsoever.
I may have misinterpreted what you are saying. When I read this > there is no evidence of anything in the Bible I interpreted it as you saying "Nothing in the bible has corroborating evidence". Not "the bible is not evidence for anything". The bible mentions the sun and we have corroborating evidence that the sun does indeed exist. The bible's mention of the sun alone isn't evidence for it's existence. That said, the…
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Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps
#225Fascinating from both a technological and theological/ecclesiological perspective. I'll be sure to pass this on to some of my faith-filled friends who now live south of the Alps but have roots in the same region. > inhumation burials — a practice uncommon in other Roman cemeteries in Frankfurt To save others looking it up: "inhumation burial" seems to be a technical term in the field for what we simply call "burial",…
My wife is Messianic Jewish, where the primary intent is to restore Jewish traditions and beliefs while still believing in Jesus/Yeshua ("Jesus" being essentially a mispronunciation; the westernized version of the name would more accurately be "Joshua"). Personally my beliefs lie elsewhere, but it's still unfortunate that "denomination" is still such a tiny minority, given its desire to be a purer form of the religio…
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Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
Speaking of history podcasts, I've gone through Mike Duncan's Rome and Revolutions, the Fall of Civilizations, Dan Carlin's Hardcore Histories... any suggestions for more like this? I noticed there is a Byzantium history series that seemed interesting.
https://www.thebritishhistorypodcast.com/ The British History Podcast starts in deep pre-Roman times and, after ~460 episodes, is up to 1091.
Thanks for the recommendation, however, I really disliked the presenters tone and language. I love the topic, but he came across as too bubbly and informal - "but anyways, whatever!", etc.
Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't think that's in line with Jesus' teachings of humility and helping the poor etc, especially not given how much money goes and went around in the church. Hmm, but in the Exodus, the ark of the covenant was glided in gold with cherubs on the four corners. Same with the Jewish Temple, it was probably decked out in marble. Unlike Protestants, Catholicism have arts, choral music and statues and architecture not…
Well yeah, opulent temples are in line with Jewish traditions but the other poster is suggesting that's not in line with the teaching of the new testament specifically?
Not necessarily but like much interpretations differ. An old retired pastor friend once described the story of Mary anointing Christ with the expensive oil and being chastised by Judas as a “waste” with Jesus correcting Judas (John 12). He expressed that story as possibly symbolic of how we should regard Christ as the glorious king of kings and despite His servant humility, He is still deserving of the finest we have including opulence in His houses of worship.
We had this conversation while I was struggling as a member of the church over a remodel of our sanctuary and what I felt were excessive expenses that were more for beauty than function. Essentially “a waste”. I asked his opinion
Always kind of thought provoking when an octogenarian pastor makes you realize that you identified with Judas’s attitude.
Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps
#228I find it pretty cool how the spread of Christianity can be tracked so finely that a 50 update in earliest arrival time is exciting! I started listening to a podcast called "the history of the early church" to learn a bit more about that but unfortunately I think the target audience was Christians interested in theology rather than nerds interested in history. Recommendations for books etc are welcome!
I've been reading a lot about the early church for about a year and really enjoying it. I'm an atheist but I'm also a history nerd so it's been truly fascinating. Here are some that I've enjoyed: - The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels; I read this one so casually that I don't have a good summary due to poor memory. - The Passover Plot by Hugh J Schonfield; author contends that Jesus believed that he was the prophesie…
Elaine Pagels is the one who got publication credit for the lost Gospels of Thomas.. that was discussed across the globe in literate circles. That book you mention by her is new to me
(1995). The Origin of Satan: How Christians Demonized Jews, Pagans, and Heretics. New York: Vintage Books. ISBN 978-0-679-40140-7
Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
Produced by a Mormon whose dissertation was supervised by an atheist Professor of the Hebrew Bible and Ancient Religion. This may be a data point in favor of the trustworthiness of the podcast, or it may be an argument against, depending on your own personal point of view.
As long as the approach is rigorous scholarship in good faith (is it?), it shouldn't matter too much.
I can't speak for the particular material referenced, but ... good faith is a lot to ask for in religious meta-literature. So often I see arguments based on the following:
* Start by assuming all the weird stuff didn't actually happen. We all know that fiction is stranger than truth.
* Next, assume it's impossible to foretell the future (in particular, "people who hate each other will start a war" can obviously only have been written after the fact), so clearly the author lied about the date they wrote it. Also, assume that nobody ever updated the grammar (due to linguistic drift) while copying it, and that the oldest surviving copy.
* Finally, assume that all previous translations were made by utter imbeciles and reject the wording they used, even if that means picking words that mean something completely unrelated to the original. You can always just assume that the words were a typo or something, and not a blatant reference to other books on the same topic.
The most basic sign of rigorous scholarship is saying "well, maybe" a lot, with just an occasional "but definitely not that".
Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exodus was as far from Christ as we are. The Old Testament can't be used to counter Jesus - Jesus is the counter to the Old Testament. He is the reason it's "Old" - humility, loving all without conditions, forgivenes, turning the other cheek - The Greatest Commandment, none of them are ignored or "misinterpreted" in any justified way, even if that way is quoting scripture from Exodus.
That's a very unusual context for me, in my tradition (reformed Presbyterian) we definitely don't view things that we way in general, the God of the old testament is the God of the new and Jesus didn't wholesale make the old testament invalid, only the parts of the law that he had already satisfied. (Eg no need for more animal sacrifices, we've already sacrificed enough via Jesus) (Notably, the moral law and parts of…
You are a believer I take it - did he not split the veil?
Why do you think you can pick and chose what he invalidates and what he doesn't? He left one - ONE rule with two parts, it's very simple, even children have the ability to understand.
Every Christian I speak always says something like this - "a common misconception" " not my understanding" "according to the church fathers" - so many quite not Jesus at to counter me quoting Jesus, the man who is the basis of all your beliefs.
He did not say we could make exceptions, in fact, to use the OT as appropriate - to support Jesus and his teachings, the rule/divine laws that we were given, of which there was only 10 was VERY CLEAR about our taking liberties with interpretation.
Thou Shall Not Judge. No exceptions for this one either - this morally, ethically, legally, socially, none.
Next time you read the Bible - Jesus was frustrated as fuck with the "Church" of his time - he very strongly disliked them as much as a man that claims to be the Son of God can.
He said we are the church - US, the believers, not a building, not a congregation, not a fellowship - US.
He said that in an attempt to prevent the church from becoming as it is now - nothing remotely like him or his teachings, beliefs or values.