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Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

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Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#221

Post by elcomet »

EGreg wrote: post #203
tomatovole wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a metric I can look at in engine evaluations to determine when a situation is "risky" for white or black (e.g., the situation above) even if it looks equal with perfect play? I've always been interested in understanding situations where this is the case (and the opposite, where the engine favours one side but it seems to require a long, hard-to-find sequence of moves. Playing out the top lines helps if equal…

Yes, it’s called Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS used by AlphaZero) instead of AlphaBeta search (which is what classical chess engines used)

Those are tree search techniques, they are not metrics to assess the "human" complexity of a line. They could be used for this purpose but out of the box they just give you winning probability

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#222

Post by xmprt »

ANewFormation wrote: post #158
seanhunter wrote: post #31

That was a absolutely horrible finish to a really exciting championship if you ask me. For anyone who doesn't know, there was a lot of drama because Gukesh was playing amazingly coming into this (eg winning the gold medal on board 1 at the olympiad in crushing style) and Ding had been playing terribly. Then there were 13 games of back and forth with stalwart defending and imaginative computer preparation by both side…

This really misses the key drama of what happened in the last game. Ding had a perfectly safe position where he could try to squeeze Gukesh pretty much endlessly with basically 0 risk. He then, completely inexplicably, went down a forced line which led to the final phase of the game. In this phase the position was drawn with perfect play, but that is completely irrelevant because it is really tough to play. And more…

Not the mention the time trouble that Ding left himself in once again. This time Gukesh ended with almost a full hour over Ding. When you put yourself in a tough position, no matter how drawish it is in theory, you need to have enough time to figure out the ideas of the position and with only 10 minutes left and 30 seconds per move, you might slip up and make a quick move when you really needed to think harder.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#223

Post by fernandopj »

esfandia wrote: post #194
tomatovole wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a metric I can look at in engine evaluations to determine when a situation is "risky" for white or black (e.g., the situation above) even if it looks equal with perfect play? I've always been interested in understanding situations where this is the case (and the opposite, where the engine favours one side but it seems to require a long, hard-to-find sequence of moves. Playing out the top lines helps if equal…

Maybe the difference between the eval of the best move vs the next one(s)? An "only move" situation would be more risky than when you have a choice between many good moves.

That's it exactly. Engines will often show you at least 3 lines each with their valuation, and you can check the difficulty often just from that delta from 1st to 2nd best move. With some practical chess experience you can also "feel" how natural or exoteric the best move is.

In the WCC match between Caruana and Carlsen, they were at one difficult endgame where Carlsen (the champion) moved and engines calculated it was a "blunder" because there was a theoretical checkmate in like 36(!) moves, but no commentator took it seriously as there was "no way" a human would be able to spot the chance and calculate it correctly under the clock.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#224

Post by fernandopj »

Leary wrote: post #175
tomatovole wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a metric I can look at in engine evaluations to determine when a situation is "risky" for white or black (e.g., the situation above) even if it looks equal with perfect play? I've always been interested in understanding situations where this is the case (and the opposite, where the engine favours one side but it seems to require a long, hard-to-find sequence of moves. Playing out the top lines helps if equal…

https://live.lczero.org/

This is great, but I think that % is about the "correctness" of the move, not how likely it is to be played next.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#225

Post by MrMcCall »

robertlagrant wrote: post #80
MrMcCall wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Nepo and Magnus seem to be cut from a different cloth, although Magnus has never had a moment where he could demonstrate whether or not he can be humble, because he has always just crushed. Anish Giri kind of took a shot at Magnus (with respect to his retiring from classical chess) in his early commentary with Petr Leko a few days ago. People are funny, and one doesn't usually get to be where Ding and Guk…

Everyone looks humble compared to Hans, though.

He certainly has created a bit of buzz.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#226

Post by leosanchez »

alephnerd wrote: post #151
__rito__ wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My distant cousing, a Bengali, named, say, Rama Dass, also grew up in Tamil Nadu. His name was Tamilized to D. Rama or Rama D.- even though Dass was a family surname. > States in India are basically different countries, and the existing state borders for most states don't make sense. No. Huge oversimplification there. It's not definitely like oblasts of Russian Federation. Although they are not close like OR and ID.

> No. Huge oversimplification there I mean culturally and administratively. Heck, in my ancestral state, non-natives cannot purchase land. > It's not definitely like oblasts of Russian Federation It absolutely is. Heck, my ancestral state (HP) is a merger of 3 entirely distinct ethnic communities (Lower Himachalis who are the same community as in Jammu division, Upper Himachalis who are closer to Garwhalis and Kumaou…

> that Rayalseema is lumped with Kosta Andhra,

They share a common language ?

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#227

Post by runekaagaard »

BurningFrog wrote: post #138
chairmansteve wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Only programming is more difficult....". Programming is definitely easier for me. In chess, my ego gets in the way. I hate to lose.

Programming is easy. There is no opponent!

Rust's borrow checker?

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#228

Post by vlovich123 »

12345hn6789 wrote: post #213
wongarsu wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, legendary Magnus Carlsen was 23 when he first became world champion. Ding Liren, the other finalist and previous winner, is 32. The title holder before Magnus was Anand who first won the title at age 31 (or arguably 38, depending on your stance about the PCA). Kramnik before him was 31. Legendary Garry Kasparov was 22. It's normal for the champion to get his first win in his early 30s. Getting it in your…

Why wasnt Magnus in this tournament? Surely this would be impressive if the headline was: Youngest champion ever beats current best chess player. Instead it's new champion crowned after legendary chess play does not partake in said competition

Same reason it was Nepo and Ding last time. Combination of he wants to give other people the ability to compete for it, him not having the same interest for what it takes to prepare for such a tournament, and FIDE refusing to adjust the format to make for what he thinks would be a more interesting tournament.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#229

Post by meta_x_ai »

FactolSarin wrote: post #17

What is the deal with Gukesh's last name? It's officially listed as just D on his FIDE profile. I asked a couple Indian coworkers who said it was probably just being abbreviated for being long, but honestly it's not that long of a name and Gukesh isn't from the same region as them. I've read elsewhere that Telugu speaking people don't really use last names.

As a South Indian My name (in public school records) till I was age 21, was .

I was forced to pick the last name for passport purposes and typically i either have the option of attaching my dad's name or my dad's town name.

My wife, didn't even do that and when she migrated to US, she was LNU (short for Last Name Unknown). While applying for greencard we decided it was too much of a hassle for her and she attached her father's name

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