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GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

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221–230 of 692 posts

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#221
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mercedes is driving itself and you have 10 seconds to takeover. Huge difference between level 3 and level 2. One is self driving and one is just a drivers aid. None of that is true, it just follows the car in front in slow moving traffic during daytime in good weather on premapped roads and cannot even change lanes. No car in front anymore? It completely fails to "self"-drive. These limitations are taboo to talk ab…

Compare it to FSD which can't self drive on any road in any condition. Thats the real facts.

There are plenty of FSD videos on YouTube where the driver didn't have to intervene at all on long trips, where the car isn't just following the car in front.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#222

Frankly, I think Tesla is going to win this. The new self-driving is remarkably good. Based on this alone, I estimate (actual) level 5 self driving in 2-3 years. I'm convinced that the lidar sensors are essentially unnecessary and the vision-only strategy is basically going to work and be much cheaper in the process.

How about we wait till they have given a single public ride before crowning them winners? At the moment Tesla's effort is nothing more than a marketing campaign.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#223
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a "GM's business model" problem, which is again a GM problem. The top-selling EV maker in the US doesn't have any dealerships, so clearly it's not an insurmountable problem. GM just hasn't prioritized surmounting it.

To be fair to GM, Tesla basically had to be a brand new auto company and work through a whole bunch of legal loopholes and battles just to have their direct sales model. GM and the rest of the legacy automakers are essentially bound to the dealership system and the dealerships represent a much larger lobbying base than the automakers themselves. We are seeing this play out with VW’s attempt to direct-sell Scout vehic…

I could do a undergrad essay on how the dealership model is bad for the manufacturers, which would boil down to how Indian motorcycles failed (which was also due to mismanagement). However, the VW scouts are an absolute abomination that should be cleansed from the earth.

They aren't going to be any good as an off-road vehicle, the approach/departure angles are horrible. They will also be way too heavy, just as a function of being an EV. Plus, the styling is absolute garbage. I've owned a scout 80 for 18 years, it was my first vehicle. I owned an OH scout for longer than they have been collectible. This new scout doesn't have any styling cues to any prior vehicle, it just looks like if you asked an AI to generate an off-road truck. And they even had a better example, the new broncos absolutely hit it out of the park. Line I E if those up next to a mid 60s bronco and you can see the resemblance, which is why Ford did that in their marketing. These new VW scouts, if you park them next to either an 800 or a scout 2, don't even look like the same lineage. They are just an abomination, and the only car company I'd trust less with shepherding the scout brand would be stellantis2. We've seen how poor of a job they've done with the jeep.

And the stupid part is,most people don't and have never understood why the original scout was good. They were an overly heavy, underpowered, and expensive vehicle. But, they were a tremendously capable off-road vehicle, my stock scout 80 has gone places a modern Rubicon with lockers couldn't go. It's down to a very fortunate suspension design and stupidly low gearing.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#224
post #46

Further proof that General Motors is run the finance types, not car guys. Wonder if they'd sell Cruise back to the founders for say a buck? Sure Cruise could then cut a deal with another auto maker. Maybe even get financing from one?

Cruise burn rate was to the tune of 1B a year as reported by GM. Needs to be someone with very deep pockets to put it mildly

Even Waymo has external investors. It’s not all funded by Alphabet.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you assuming MB Drive Pilot couldn’t also work pretty well outside of its design domain? Yes,that's a suppressed fact, not an assumption. It just follows the car in front. Check my other comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42384114

Umm, yeah. Maybe I wasn't clear. MB Drive Pilot is designed not to attempt to operate outside of a well-defined domain. It will, by design, not operate in a way that is unsafe or in a context in which it's unsafe. You are arguing the system would perform worse in contexts in which you have not seen it perform (because its designers decided to prevent it from such attempts). What evidence do you have for your argument…

> You are arguing the system would perform worse in contexts in which you have not seen it perform (because its designers decided to prevent it from such attempts).

Should we also assume that Mercedes cars can fly better than a plane, because we have not yet seen them fly?

What kind of logic is that?

In other news, OpenAI has solved AGI last year, but is keeping it a secret because it's too dangerous.

I have solved self driving, how can you say I didn't if you haven't seen it perform?

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on my anecdotal experience, another issue is that salespeople are not trained on the tech I worked on a feature for new vehicles and the company failed in part because buyers simply didn’t know those features were part of the vehicle. Dealers never set it up for the buyer and it wasn’t something many people would think to do on their own A salesperson isn’t going to jeopardize an easy sale by bungling some fanc…

I’d guess this is at least half the features on my iPhone. I’m sure it can do things that I’m not even thinking a phone can do, but nobody set anything up, and it’s not very obvious or discoverable.

At least when you purchase an iPhone new, Apple does push a "Personal Setup" session with their staff either in-store or online https://www.apple.com/shop/personal-setup (click the "Feature Focus" tab)

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cruise burn rate was to the tune of 1B a year as reported by GM. Needs to be someone with very deep pockets to put it mildly

GM is is making 12 billion a year of profit though. It seems like madness to cut Cruise unless there is no hope of it ever working or making a profit… The only U.S. competitor besides Waymo that’s seemingly remotely in the ballpark is Zoox.

Oh believe me i agree. As a former Cruise employee (i left in 2019) it’s incredible to me how they went almost all the way only to get it gutted like that

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#228
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind Yes. I think GM leadership has finally learned enough to realize how far behind they are.

Maybe in some small parts of the country. Tesla is dominating most everywhere else in the US. I definitely have no access to a Waymo but have been driven by FSD in heavy construction. (Do not own a Tesla myself).

Tesla is not "dominating" Waymo, they provide completely different offerings. Waymo provides a taxi service (like Uber) with autonomous vehicles. Tesla sells cars that offer a driving assistant feature, but the system is not able to operate safely without human supervision.

I can safely and legally take a Waymo home after getting drunk at the bar, this is not true of a Tesla.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#229

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

Brad Templeton's Robotaxi Timeline[1] (October 2024) shows a dozen milestones that Waymo has achieved over nearly 15 years from "Make a nice video" to "100,000 Rides per week." Waymo needs two more milestones to achieve "Production!" Waymo's competitors are behind on the timeline, but may move faster thanks to improved technology and a more welcoming social environment.

[1] https://www.templetons.com/brad/robocars/timeline.html

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#230
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla salespeople can explain this well though. And the cars come equipped and they let you FSD without them in the vehicle. The confidence exhudes

What tesla salespeople? They're pretty well known for flaunting the dealer model. I've never bought a tesla, but from the friends that have bought one one of the big plusses is you don't talk to a salesperson at all, you buy the car at a fixed retail price online. Has this changed recently?

Tesla has lots of showrooms with cars, test drives, and sales people. If you're there and want to buy a car, they direct you to a computer with an Internet connection.
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