Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

apnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 481 posts

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#221

Post by wrycoder »

simonask wrote: post #93
Auracle wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Trees plant themselves. If it’s not being actively used for something/mowed it’ll turn back into forest.

This isn't really true. Growing a forest is way more complicated than you might think - they don't just sprout spontaneously, as trees take a long time to grow and are easily kept down by fauna, landscape, nutrient levels, erosion, and many other factors. I don't remember the details, but I believe it goes something like farm -> heath -> shrubland -> young forest -> mature forest, where each phase has a unique ecosys…

Exactly. It only takes a couple of decades for nature to reforest, which is an eyeblink, actually. And only a couple more decades to return to mature forest. No humans or projects needed. There is a lot more forest in New England (USA) now, than a century ago.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#222

Post by bluefirebrand »

shiroiushi wrote: post #216
lovemenot wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be fine, I believe. Just in terms of land-use, livestock is several times less efficient than other kinds of agriculture for the same food output. So a shift from meat to other food crops would be a net win, even as it frees up land for other purposes. Many farmers will receive a one-time payment on land sales and some will use this windfall to subsidise their transition from growing livestock to more envir…

>Just in terms of land-use, livestock is several times less efficient than other kinds of agriculture for the same food output. This assumes that the land is equally usable for both activities. Many times, it isn't: a lot of land that's good enough for grazing cows doesn't have enough water available for growing plants that people want to (or can) eat. People can't eat grass. This probably isn't an issue in Denmark,…

It also ignores that animals produce the manure that is used to fertilize soil to grow crops in.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#223

Post by Galaxeblaffer »

whatwhaaaaat wrote: post #189
chipdart wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Denmarks agricultural performance is not great at all. it's way too expensive to produce stuff. if it wasn't for EU subsidies the agricultural sector in Denmark would loose over 50% of their profits. Agriculture in the EU is renowned for not being financially unjustified. For decades it's been a finantial no-brainer to import the bulk of agricultural products from south America and Africa. This is not new or the re…

Let me get this right. To save the planet Denmark wants to stop producing food locally and instead import more? So those pig farts gotta go but the bunker fuel used to ship grain from a slash and burn rainforest farm in Brazil is a-ok. Utterly brain dead. So much so that you know someone’s getting paid from these decisions.

you got it.. and grain is not the only thing we get shipped from Brazil.. to look green, we've replaced most our coal burning for energy with bio fuels, essentially wood and that gets shipped in from Brazil as well.. very green.. because fuck nuclear, because of.. checks notes.. reasons

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#224

Post by Retric »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #218
Retric wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demand for war materials goes up in a war, but the population and thus food demand isn’t going to drastically spike. There’s a reasonable argument for having a food stockpile in case of emergencies, but extra farmland is harder to justify.

The demand won't spike, but the need to switch to local production necessitates some way to locally produce.

That’s limited by the country’s basic requirements not the total amount of farmland available. People may prefer wine and beef in surplus resulting in an obesity epidemic, but that’s not required here. You don’t want 350 lb soldiers or recruits.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#225

Post by chairmansteve »

chaostheory wrote: post #207
manvillej wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments pay to keep food at the cheapest point possible to ensure stability. a fed population doesn't kill their governments. Agriculture is not a regular industry; its a national security issue Farming is not a profitable endeavor. There would be a lot less financial advisors in the world otherwise. A carbon tax will either drive up prices or reduce suppliers, increasing prices. Reducing farmland will require mo…

I wouldn’t be surprised if the masses interpret these changes as “let them eat cake” given that inflation is already hammering the middle and lower classes.

Denmark is a net exporter of food. In other words a net importer of agricultural pollution. So they could refice food exports without domestic political consequences. In theory.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#226

Post by Retric »

Spooky23 wrote: post #196
Retric wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demand for war materials goes up in a war, but the population and thus food demand isn’t going to drastically spike. There’s a reasonable argument for having a food stockpile in case of emergencies, but extra farmland is harder to justify.

In the case of the US, we turned much of the richest farmland into subdivisions. The breadbasket of the nation is powered by an aquifer that will be depleted in my kids lifetime. Most of our green goods come from the deserts of California and Arizona, and won’t exist if the Colorado River water system breaks down.

That aquifer is being depleted because of farm subsidies not in spite of them.

The US’s domestic demand for food is vastly below the actual production, exports and biofuels need not be maintained in a war.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#227

Post by RayVR »

chaostheory wrote: post #207
manvillej wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments pay to keep food at the cheapest point possible to ensure stability. a fed population doesn't kill their governments. Agriculture is not a regular industry; its a national security issue Farming is not a profitable endeavor. There would be a lot less financial advisors in the world otherwise. A carbon tax will either drive up prices or reduce suppliers, increasing prices. Reducing farmland will require mo…

I wouldn’t be surprised if the masses interpret these changes as “let them eat cake” given that inflation is already hammering the middle and lower classes.

in Denmark, inflation is currently running at a 1.6% annualized rate, as of the most recent reading[0]. This is the full basket inflation rate, including volatile categories (food and energy). Core inflation is even lower, with the latest reading at 1.3% (annualized) in October 2024. Food inflation is, of course, volatile. It currently sits at a moderately elevated level of 3.9% (October 2024, annualized).

Food prices declined earlier this year for two consecutive months, though that will be a minor consolation after the significant food price inflation in 2022 and persisting, though at a slower pace, through 2023.

All of that to say, "let them eat cake" mentality is unlikely in a country where they have consistently ranked at the top of a world happiness index. Additionally, while I'm not well versed in Danish politics, I am under the impression that the Social Democrats have responded much better to the mass immigration that has been an ongoing issue for many parties throughout Europe. I think this is indicative of a party that adapts rather more quickly to the consequences of their previous policies and is less ideologically stubborn - at least on some issues.

0: https://ycharts.com/indicators/denmark_inflation_rate

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#229

Post by 9front »

From https://cphpost.dk/2024-11-22/news/round-up/we-are-in-crisis...

"Danish Crown, one of Denmark’s largest Danish meat producer, is facing significant financial challenges as pig deliveries to its processing plants have dropped in the 2023/24 financial year."

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#230

Post by RayVR »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #184
insane_dreamer wrote: post #171

Incidentally this is one of the approaches described in Kim Robinson's The Ministry for the Future, a novel on climate change (more about the political ramifications of it than the ecological impacts). Interesting read.

Before anyone jumps into this book I would caution against it. This book had many very cool ideas and moments. The way it played out felt very "real". However, in the end there was very little actual story and was very boring at times. I actively dislike Neal Stephenson but if you want a near-future climate story I would recommend Termination Shock over Ministry For The Future. Just a random internet person's two cen…

I also read KSR's book. It was interesting at times. However, the research on the financial topics, including the central banks and "global financiers" was quite bad.

I don't recall the glaring errors right now, however, given this is an area where I (at least once upon a time) was an expert, it was quite bad to read this and realize there are likely other serious errors in topics with which I am not at all familiar.

While this is of course a work of fiction, getting verifiable facts wrong, intentionally or not, ruins it for me.

Post reply on HN