Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

newsletter.weskao.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 346 posts

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#221

Post by scotty79 »

lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

This article gives a good advice how to give feedback to anyone without souring relationship.

Everyone can be insecure and if your superior happens to feel insecure about you that day the damage can be severe.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#222

Post by namdnay »

NAHWheatCracker wrote: post #43
lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

I agree with you that's how it should be, but experience tells me that everyone is insecure and it's hardly correlated with position and job security. People lower down the chain are insecure because they could legitimately be let go at any time for any reason. People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. Especially having failings pointed out by someone "below" them.

in my experience, people higher up the chain are much more at risk of being let go at any time

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#223

Post by atoav »

lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

You must be very lucky. The majority of places where I worked was headed by people with fragile egos that you had to slowly guide to the right conclusion without the presence of an audience.

If you told them something that could be interpreted as a criticism of a decision in front of others they would in principle not accept it and play to the audience. If you just told them a fact thst they disliked they would argue against it, I had a superior argue against fundamental laws of physics bscause he disliked the conclusion that followed from that lae being true.

Luckily I am a very diplomatic person and have no issues with that — but apparently things within organizations aren't as they should be.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#224

Post by oreally »

01100011 wrote: post #47
bradlys wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just due to an employee being H1B. It's that 80% of your peers are Chinese and Indian H1Bs who bring that culture of deference to authority into the US. I don't even feel like I'm working in the US when I'm working for any tech company these days. If I'm at ads for FB, I may as well be in Beijing. Some others, I may as well be in Mumbai. It would be nice to work with Americans/westerners for once and actuall…

I don't agree with OP. I'm American and have mostly worked for American companies and have rarely had issues with giving honest, often difficult, feedback to superiors. But > 80% of your peers are Chinese and Indian H1Bs who bring that culture of deference to authority into the US. is sadly spot on. Even when the org is very receptive to feedback, one manager in the chain who possesses a cultural belief in absolute a…

This happens with any sort of foreign investments into any other country that has different sets of values. Even now the locals in my country are complaining about neo-colonialism and india/china-only perspectives in the companies they work for. Protectionist reactions are real and shape politics.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#226

Post by cgio »

zabzonk wrote: post #125
cgio wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a senior leader myself, that was my initial reaction. Then, I thought about myself and cohort and I would say, unfortunately, the advice in the article is required. There are challenges in feedback in both directions. E.g.the people who are best at receiving it are the ones who usually don't, either because they are strong in many other things than the feedback domain, or because they seem so self confident that p…

Well, "senior leader", if this is the kind of incomprehensible stuff you routinely come up with, I'm amazed your teams produce anything.

Well, I must be good in other things right? Not known for being very comprehensible indeed. We all have to play to our strengths.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#227

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

Kamq wrote: post #101
NAHWheatCracker wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that's how it should be, but experience tells me that everyone is insecure and it's hardly correlated with position and job security. People lower down the chain are insecure because they could legitimately be let go at any time for any reason. People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. Especially having failings pointed out by someone "below" them.

> People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. You don't do it in public. There's no face to lose in private (you're a subordinate, face is only lost among peers and superiors). It is, however, not really a good idea to be 100% blunt out of the gate. There's a dance to it. But in public, I'm there to make my manager look good, and in private I'll tell them exactly what I think. On…

One of my favorite pieces of consultant advice, is Beans and Noses: https://archive.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/07/08/beans-and-nos...

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#228

Post by [deleted] »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #176
sleazebreeze wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Biden case seems like an example of when the senior leader was not given any honest feedback in private and then was humiliated in public. If anything that’s a reason to give feedback to the leader privately without sugar coating.

According to the comment I responded to, the senior leader can't be humiliated in public, because there is no such concept as the senior leader losing face.

[deleted]

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#229

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

The_Colonel wrote: post #187
Kamq wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. You don't do it in public. There's no face to lose in private (you're a subordinate, face is only lost among peers and superiors). It is, however, not really a good idea to be 100% blunt out of the gate. There's a dance to it. But in public, I'm there to make my manager look good, and in private I'll tell them exactly what I think. On…

> you're a subordinate, face is only lost among peers and superiors I disagree. Losing the respect of your subordinates is IMHO worse than of your superior.

To a point. I have found that subordinates always have to feel that they have a "little secret edge" over their managers.

In my experience, this is both harmless and necessary. If I, as a manager, can't handle that, then I'm kinda screwed.

But it is also highly dependent on the types of people we manage.

Source: Manager for over 25 years, of a bunch of folks much smarter and more experienced than me.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#230

Post by joz1-k »

namdnay wrote: post #222
NAHWheatCracker wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that's how it should be, but experience tells me that everyone is insecure and it's hardly correlated with position and job security. People lower down the chain are insecure because they could legitimately be let go at any time for any reason. People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. Especially having failings pointed out by someone "below" them.

in my experience, people higher up the chain are much more at risk of being let go at any time

I agree. And the insecurity that these managers feel makes them very poor leaders. They tend to be overly subservient to higher-ups and just pass all management decisions down the chain without too much thought. And they like to punish any disagreement (no matter how reasonable) from their subordinates. Insecurity is the opposite of a culture of trust. And where there is no trust, there is no real leadership.
Post reply on HN