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Buy payphones and retire

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Re: Buy payphones and retire

#221

Post by kdmccormick »

andrewla wrote: post #57

The concept of "passive income" is almost a scissor concept. Or maybe only if you couple it with the categorical imperitive. On the one hand, it's so obviously true that it would be great to have passive income. Draw the salary you're drawing now, with some growth, and not have to work. On the other hand, if everyone had access to this capability then society and civilization would grind to a halt. People make things…

I agree with your parallel to rent seeking. Rent seeking is indeed both (a) arguably immoral and (b) seemingly inescapable in a society which respects property rights.

The theory of Georgism [1] suggests a way that we could eliminate rent seeking: by taxing ownership of all common resources at the value of the rent they would demand. That way, property owners, telephone operators, etc. would be rewarded for their labor in development and upkeep of the property, but would not be rewarded for ownership of the property itself.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#222

Post by zdw »

hyperhopper wrote: post #38
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have also heard that vending machine locations are highly contested. You can buy the machine, but you are not going to have the pull to deploy it at the airport. Those contracts were signed long ago.

Then why are there so few? And containing such a small variety of goods? In Japan anywhere from a busy subway to a remote park, there will be rows of vending machines everywhere, with more varieties of sodas, coffees, soups, ice creams, candies, hell even clothes or meat! And those are just the common types. You're never far from what you want in an automated fashion. Why are we so behind in America when there seemin…

Japan also has very flexible zoning for residential and commercial uses, so nearly anyone can host a vending machine as a commercial enterprise, which would generally not be allowed in most other places with different laws.

Also, some of them are insanely thin, like 25cm depth for a cold drink machine, so they can fit nearly anywhere with a power outlet.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#223

Post by hyperhopper »

zdw wrote: post #222
hyperhopper wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why are there so few? And containing such a small variety of goods? In Japan anywhere from a busy subway to a remote park, there will be rows of vending machines everywhere, with more varieties of sodas, coffees, soups, ice creams, candies, hell even clothes or meat! And those are just the common types. You're never far from what you want in an automated fashion. Why are we so behind in America when there seemin…

Japan also has very flexible zoning for residential and commercial uses, so nearly anyone can host a vending machine as a commercial enterprise, which would generally not be allowed in most other places with different laws. Also, some of them are insanely thin, like 25cm depth for a cold drink machine, so they can fit nearly anywhere with a power outlet.

The vast majority of vending machines in Japan are allmost as deep as American counterparts. And even if not, maybe we could just have more thin vending machines here.

Also the zoning issue is just a very clear policy failure. I don't think even the most hardcore NIMBY suburbanites would complain about being able to get meat and dairy steps from their front door in an automated low traffic fashion.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#224

Post by jon_richards »

ochoseis wrote: post #175
miki123211 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the version of passive income where you don't do anything productive at all, ever, and just put up some initial capital in exchange for even more money back, is always a scam No, that's just investing. This is how savings accounts work, this is how CDs work, this is how treasury bonds work, this is how passive investing (e.g. via ETFs on index funds) works, and there are many, many more examples. If you're keeping…

> Bonds have (relatively) low returns but almost 0 risk Each of the asset classes you listed has risks. Bonds are subject to term (i.e. inflation) and credit (i.e. default) risk. Bonds may be less volatile than equities and commodities, but they can definitely go down (e.g. 2022). The only free lunch in investing is diversification.

Sure, there’s no free lunch, but there is the beat-you-up-and-take-your-lunch-money of not investing.

Bonds may have gone down, but they still paid out. Unless people sold at a loss for liquidity or could’ve timed the market and bought low, they were better off than people stashing money in a mattress or most bank accounts.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#225

Post by bufferoverflow »

kdmccormick wrote: post #221
andrewla wrote: post #57

The concept of "passive income" is almost a scissor concept. Or maybe only if you couple it with the categorical imperitive. On the one hand, it's so obviously true that it would be great to have passive income. Draw the salary you're drawing now, with some growth, and not have to work. On the other hand, if everyone had access to this capability then society and civilization would grind to a halt. People make things…

I agree with your parallel to rent seeking. Rent seeking is indeed both (a) arguably immoral and (b) seemingly inescapable in a society which respects property rights. The theory of Georgism [1] suggests a way that we could eliminate rent seeking: by taxing ownership of all common resources at the value of the rent they would demand. That way, property owners, telephone operators, etc. would be rewarded for their lab…

Rent seeking is not immoral. You own something. You choose to let others use it for a fee per month or per day. Some other person voluntarily thinks your deal is good and agrees to pay to use your something.

Sure, you can come up with some obscure examples of rent seeking being immoral, like charging a dehydrated dying person $1000 per glass of water, but that's not what we're discussing here.

If you disagree, let's make a deal where I get to use all of your stuff for free forever.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#226

Post by SirMaster »

ac29 wrote: post #206
SirMaster wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rental income doesn't need any work if you are just an investor though. I don't do a single thing. The people who are managing the deal are the ones who do the work and hire the workers to work on site and such. They of course get an even better return during the sale, but I am happy with what I get for doing nothing. My rental properties are paying me a decent passive income of about 6%, and additionally the total i…

>additionally the total investment about doubles in roughly 5 years According to data at FRED ( https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS ), the median US home price has gone from $320k to $420k in the past 5 years (an increase of around 30%). So, I guess good for you that you happen to have done so much better than the median, but your results are atypical at best, and misleading at worst.

This is not home prices, this is apartment complexes that I am talking about. They are tens of million dollar investment deals and you can join in with usually as little as 75K in what I am referring to.

My results are not atypical for this sector from everything I have seen and all the other investors I know doing similar deals.

You aren't just waiting for the value to go up... They buy sort of struggling properties that are otherwise in good areas and show potential and using the investment capital they improve the property. A ton of research and market analysis goes into picking the right place etc. Like installing a pool, gym, basketball courts, security gates, renovating and refurbishing all the units etc. Renaming and completely rebranding the property. Hiring whole new management team for the on-site stuff to better handle tenant needs.

And yes you raise the rents and also get occupancy up. After all this then you sell the property for significantly more.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#227

Post by SirMaster »

Ctyra wrote: post #193
SirMaster wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 6% income plus a doubling of the investment. 100K after 5 years became about 230K. 30K of passive income that was essentially tax free because of the offset from the depreciation of the property and the assets within the property that depreciate at a significantly faster rate than the rental property. And then with all the improvements made to the property and the increase in rent that the substantial improvemen…

Do you mind sharing some details on what kind of real estate investments these are?

Multi-family, so apartment complexes. The deals are for tens of millions of dollars, and you can usually join in for as little as 75K.

But you either need to be an accredited investor, or know one of the managers of the deal before the deal is set and they let you join. They are typically allowed to bring in a certain percentage of the deal from non-accredited investors that they know.

What's nice is once you go through a full deal cycle usually 5-6 years, and they sell, you become an accredited investor for having gone through that and that makes it much easier to find and join another deal without having to know the managing partners personally beforehand.

Like one of the deals I am in is primarily managed by this guy. And he has a very large personal stake of several million.

https://thinkmultifamily.com/

He's got way more money on the line than me in the deal, and so he cares very much about making the property successful for himself and selling at the right time etc and I am really just along for the ride essentially.

Here is one of the other main managing partners of another deal I am invested with.

https://raisere.com/

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#228

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #225
kdmccormick wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your parallel to rent seeking. Rent seeking is indeed both (a) arguably immoral and (b) seemingly inescapable in a society which respects property rights. The theory of Georgism [1] suggests a way that we could eliminate rent seeking: by taxing ownership of all common resources at the value of the rent they would demand. That way, property owners, telephone operators, etc. would be rewarded for their lab…

Rent seeking is not immoral. You own something. You choose to let others use it for a fee per month or per day. Some other person voluntarily thinks your deal is good and agrees to pay to use your something. Sure, you can come up with some obscure examples of rent seeking being immoral, like charging a dehydrated dying person $1000 per glass of water, but that's not what we're discussing here. If you disagree, let's…

I’d argue rent seeking, whether moral or not, leads to a bad system with a class of people with vast wealth and no need to work, and a class of people largely without access to the same manner of income who have to labor for a living.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#229

Post by samatman »

immibis wrote: post #145
miki123211 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the version of passive income where you don't do anything productive at all, ever, and just put up some initial capital in exchange for even more money back, is always a scam No, that's just investing. This is how savings accounts work, this is how CDs work, this is how treasury bonds work, this is how passive investing (e.g. via ETFs on index funds) works, and there are many, many more examples. If you're keeping…

If everyone does it, the world grinds to a halt and everyone dies.

This is also true of being a doctor, practicing law, growing fruit, programming computers, driving a cab, creating art, making music, running a car wash, and crab fishing.

Re: Buy payphones and retire

#230

Post by coding123 »

andrewla wrote: post #57

The concept of "passive income" is almost a scissor concept. Or maybe only if you couple it with the categorical imperitive. On the one hand, it's so obviously true that it would be great to have passive income. Draw the salary you're drawing now, with some growth, and not have to work. On the other hand, if everyone had access to this capability then society and civilization would grind to a halt. People make things…

Actually I believe it did break the world but we haven't noticed yet.
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